Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

"

Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

Probably shouldn't waste what little time you have left in your work leave on the forums of a game you just uninstalled.

Despite i'm with you regarding this, it's remarkable that people return here to leave such a comment in a topic like this: it just shows, that they care about the game but give up investing after hitting demotivational barriers. A game should never demotivate. No matter the genre. No matter traditions.

"

Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

Honestly, it's amazing how people are arguing over 10 years about such simple topic. So many people don't understand such obvious thing, which I described above. Gladly GGG are smart enough to understand it and to not pay much attention to those debates.

GGG liking this mechanic as "players" themselves and for the nostalgia from d2 is one thing and I can understand it, but being "smart" is a different thing.

From a business perspective, smart is bringing more people on board while trying to make more cash, that's why a business exists in the first place, if anyone says otherwise and invokes the "I do it because I love it", that is fine, but you're having a hobby at that point not a business, huge difference. So in this case it's not smart to "ignore" these voices.

From a free 2 play/nostalgia standpoint, smart could be the current state, this way you can do your "hobby" because, hey it's free, so I don't need to listen to anyone at the end of the day, but in parallel whoever likes what I made can throw in some money for the business side to be sustained also.

Yet here we are, with a company having promotional content, doing exilecon, throwing interviews, twitchdrops and whatnot to spread the word further and onboard more potential 'clients'.

So if you're trying to be a business, you need to be smart and play it smart as a business, not as a nostalgic player, you can't have both else you'll always end up in these situations.

Someone could argue here that "this is their product, and it's not for everyone", I agree, but that's why every business explains their product before someone tries it so they can set the expectations properly on their potential customers and avoid these kinds of backlashes. So from this standpoint, they need to work on this a bit more if you ask me.

You ever thought of it this way :) ?

For clarity:
1. I'm ok with the xp loss.
2. I'm simply having a conversation, I'm not against anyone
3. I can understand why some people don't like it
4. I can identify that some things could have been done better from GGG in terms of communications especially for new players

"

Battousai21#8595 wrote:

"

Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

Oh, so you coming back to the game?

We thank you for your supporter pack too.

If things changed, why the hell not? This is a beatiful, gorgeous, and engaging game! I don't find the $200++ i've spent for the game as a waste! I support them for making this game, and i hope they grow and create another game just as beautiful that won't require a huge time investment. Once you grow up kid, you'll understand. ;)

"Kid" - thanks for the compliment, Pops

Fortunately, I'm capable of parsing the soundness of advice just fine despite my age, which despite your attempt at a slight, is likely not what you want it to be.

"

AngryGekko#0233 wrote:

Nobody, just NOBODY wins with this penalty active in the game.

Saying that the death XP penalty doesn't bring any good for the game was not entirely true. I know one reason why it exists, maybe it is also the same reason why GGG keeps it in PoE for the longest time (just an educated guess no actual data to back it up).

Because the death XP penalty is one of the equalizers in their competitive scene. PoE1 has a race to 100 ladder every leagues, sometimes they even offer prizes for the winners, & it's open to everyone you just play & level up. PoE2 early access even has one, even though it is still in early access. 

So what does the race to 100 have to do with the death XP penalty? Well, if you remove the death XP penalty, the whole race (leveling up to 100) just becomes a fixed value of hours & just becomes XP per hour race. And whoever can play non-stop in the highest difficulty to get most xp wins. Which is very bad for the player's health who wants to compete & GGG doesn't like it either.

The death XP penalty becomes a deterrent for players to just keep playing without resting or sleeping. If you just keep going without rest, you may lose focus or easily misjudge a decision & you die (your character, or worst also you), & you lose progress that might cause you the race. So the player who has a balanced playtime & rest has a shot in the race, he just needs to avoid mistakes.

So you see, sometimes dying in the game saves real lives.

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

From a business perspective, smart is bringing more people on board while trying to make more cash,

Casualizing games bringing "wider audience" is a myth. Elden Ring wasn't much easier than previous Souls games yet it was a mainstream success regardless. You're essentially trying to argue that mainstream doesn't like chili so what we should start serving in a chili restaurant is cold porridge.

"

boyandroid#6548 wrote:

Because the death XP penalty is one of the equalizers in their competitive scene. PoE1 has a race to 100 ladder every leagues, sometimes they even offer prizes for the winners, & it's open to everyone you just play & level up. PoE2 early access even has one, even though it is still in early access. 

Up to this point while reading the countless threads I have to admit that this might be the first post I'm seeing I believe with someone explaining it this way, which makes total sense. So thank you for that.

Everyone else who is simply a "get better", "it's here to stay", "it serves a purpose" -without explaining anything- and their noise, doesn't offer anything nor bring anything valuable to the table if they don't explain things properly.

"

MEITTI#3999 wrote:

"

mrxkon#5764 wrote:

From a business perspective, smart is bringing more people on board while trying to make more cash,

Casualizing games bringing "wider audience" is a myth. Elden Ring wasn't much easier than previous Souls games yet it was a mainstream success regardless. You're essentially trying to argue that mainstream doesn't like chili so what we should start serving in a chili restaurant is cold porridge.

Elden Ring isn't a live-service game, it's a game that you first bought and then you played. The company got paid either you liked it or not.

The business here is that you need to keep people online while keeping them happy also to have some funding.

I thought of mentioning that on my previous post but I also thought that it would've been obvious that I'm talking about this specific niche of business model :) .

So you comparing Elden Ring at the moment with a game that is first-free and then can gather funds, is wrong in my opinion.

Do you see the point I'm trying to make? If not more than happy to expand.

Good to have it cleared up either way though by the looks of it, so thanks for the input.

"

Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

Honestly, it's amazing how people are arguing over 10 years about such simple topic. So many people don't understand such obvious thing, which I described above. Gladly GGG are smart enough to understand it and to not pay much attention to those debates.

+1

Trust GGG to make the smart choices.

"

boyandroid#6548 wrote:

"

AngryGekko#0233 wrote:

Nobody, just NOBODY wins with this penalty active in the game.

Saying that the death XP penalty doesn't bring any good for the game was not entirely true.

Spoiler

I know one reason why it exists, maybe it is also the same reason why GGG keeps it in PoE for the longest time (just an educated guess no actual data to back it up).

Because the death XP penalty is one of the equalizers in their competitive scene. PoE1 has a race to 100 ladder every leagues, sometimes they even offer prizes for the winners, & it's open to everyone you just play & level up. PoE2 early access even has one, even though it is still in early access. 

So what does the race to 100 have to do with the death XP penalty? Well, if you remove the death XP penalty, the whole race (leveling up to 100) just becomes a fixed value of hours & just becomes XP per hour race. And whoever can play non-stop in the highest difficulty to get most xp wins. Which is very bad for the player's health who wants to compete & GGG doesn't like it either.

The death XP penalty becomes a deterrent for players to just keep playing without resting or sleeping. If you just keep going without rest, you may lose focus or easily misjudge a decision & you die (your character, or worst also you), & you lose progress that might cause you the race. So the player who has a balanced playtime & rest has a shot in the race, he just needs to avoid mistakes.

So you see, sometimes dying in the game saves real lives.

If there was a famous portal scroll collect race in PoE1 and the devs just copied it to PoE2 - we all would handle portal scrolls now due to traditions. But nobody misses them today.

If you could widen the audience by removing demotivating punishments and find a better balance re-wheighting all the punishment tools you have, while keeping the ingame challenge up like Elden Ring did, you should do that for the longterm health of the franchise. And the level races still could go on, even if this balance changes by ripping xp loss off - it's just a new rule set, framing the race for the future. And never forget, that PoE1 still exists.

Sometimes changing mechanics for a new game would very likely motivate more players into the franchise - and that could secure longterm earnings. For that, traditions are fine. But motivation is crucial.

The entire debacle can be solved by moving the punishment to a reward instead. Reward deathless completion chains with stacking xp/item bonuses and maybe a currency for it so the "really good" players can get some unique items someone who dies every now and then cannot.

Bad feeling converted to a rewarding feeling, everyone wins.

Alternatively, opt-in features via toggles or a league akin to SSF on char creation. No side has to give up anything and everyone stands to gain from it. The only losers are those with malicious intend/vested interest in botting/RMT/selling services which is a problem to begin with.

There are a few people who barely make it to 100, if at all, who defend it as an ego thing as this is the only game/genre they play and they need it to compensate for something but that is a psychological problem and you have a few of those everywhere, no offense.