suggested Giants Blood And Titan Changes

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Advanced Great Hammer is 94-127, Expert is 119-161. 140 vs 110 base, 27% more damage baseline. How is that 'not substantial'?

Simple - its the difference in your Hammer of the gods killing pinnacle in four seconds vs 3.5 seconds.


if youre looking at pure dps obviously its substantial. if youre looking at practical application? not so much.

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hideka#3579 wrote:

Almost forgot about how to handle trunk:

1. Move trunk to where giants blood currently is on the passive tree.
2. implement a draw back of "Reduces movement speed by 1% per occupied Space (max 20)"

Do you... not realize how important movespeed is in this game?
lose 20% movespeed for 20 stupid inventory slot? Who does that?
Even if there's 0 downside to the inventory, nobody would take it, its not even worth the 1sp spent on it.

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Do you... not realize how important movespeed is in this game?
lose 20% movespeed for 20 stupid inventory slot? Who does that?
Even if there's 0 downside to the inventory, nobody would take it, its not even worth the 1sp spent on it.

i'm aware. its about as stupid as GGG Making us waste ascendancy points on it, and still keeping the Heavy/mid Armor movement penalties in the game.

I agree that giant's blood is a very good skill. If you use it to dual wield it's basically 40% more damage vs using 1 2-hander. If you use it with a shield, then you are gaining an extra armor slot (or double damage, vs 1-handed with shield).

But I also think you are downplaying just how much you are investing into doing this, to the point that I don't think you have actually invested in all the things you have listed. You have mentioned using a unique (which is just trading one equipment slot for another), rolling strength modifiers on other gear, probably a dozen passive points explicitly, and implied using several travel nodes to get to your explicit nodes. You down play this a bit with strength being good, but the only thing that makes that remotely true is the lack of direct life on the tree. Based off of item modifiers, you could get 3x as much life from life modifiers as you get life from strength modifiers (or worded differently 6x as much life as strength).

Overall, I do think there is a balance problem here. 1-handed weapons doing half damage is probably not reasonable. I don't see how the math remotely works to make dual wielding 2 1-handed weapons equal to 1 2-handed weapon. But I think the exchange you are making to add a shield to a 2 handed build is probably fair.

The main issue is that strength stacking is mandatory anyway, theres really no other option as a mace warrior and so therefore the big downside of giants blood becomes completely redundant

I think once we start seeing swords and axes that might have higher dex requirements we'll see a lot less giants blood unless the defenses of life based builds get reworked somehow
Nobody is gonna give up 30% of their lifepool to invest 200 points into dex

Putting Giant's blood in Titan alone would be a disaster for Warbringer, who is equally dependent on it for a variety of builds, and would nerf Gemling Legionnaire too. Putting it as a prerequisite for hulking form would render it even more mandatory than it is now for no real benefit to the game.

Allowing hulking form to affect travel attribute nodes would be a completely unnecessary buff.

The reason the inventory slots are a prerequisite for Hulking Form is because they're a fun bonus and people like them but they're realistically never going to be a justifiable pick ordinarily. The current setup lets the player enjoy the inventory space without feeling guilty for 'wasting' nodes speccing it because the payoff after is so high. It's fine - literally a non-issue.

The simplest solution to Giant's Blood is to buff the damage of 1H maces. Right now they do half the damage of their counterparts and feel absolutely miserable. If they did even 80% of the amount of a 2H, the gains from Giant's Blood would be less necessary.

Instead of disabling Giant's Blood with shields, it could give a block chance penalty, or cap your block at a lower value like 40-50% - would represent the player being too large for shields to properly protect them in a kind of thematic way. Not sure how low the block would need to be to make it a fair tradeoff while still being useable though.

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hideka#3579 wrote:

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Why would they move one of the few build-defining traits that WarBringer gets into only Titan?

I'm not sure how you think warbringer is somehow build defined by giants blood. right now, warbringers two defining builds are totems, which are pretty strong, and dont scale from your main hand like they do in poe1, and corrupting blood warcry builds.

Titan is built around slams, and stuns - both of which are geared towards twohanded weapons. giants blood is infinitely more related to titan than it is warbringer.

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Plus you act like getting Giant's Blood makes the game EZ mode or something like you didn't realize it TRIPLES the stat requirements of both hands and really limits what you can equip.

oh yea?

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he node in its current state- while EXTREMELY Punishing

i totally dont realize its extremely hard to use, clearly. i mean its not like im saying hulking form should affect strength nodes or anything for just random reasons right?

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Right now your average titan is stacking 500-640 str depending on the main hand they are trying to use (most simply just opt for a lower level weapon due to the outrageous 212 str needed on level 79+ items.

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Plus, why would you NOT use a shield when that's one of the only two things you can even put in your off-hand?

Yea, no duh? i just said that. it was the primary reason as to why it SHOULDNT be compatible with shields unless they are substantially increasing the durability of armor/life builds (like nearly doubling it).

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Titan is a tank build, it's not the be-all damage ascendancy. So, making hulking form (an already OP node) affect MORE nodes is crazy.

*Stares at turtle charm/renlys/wooden wall/jade*

i think you meant to type "war bringer" instead of titan. titan has Increased life(lol), and Increased body armor(lol) which is barely better than an armor node that can be accessed at level 7.

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Stampede sucks. I don't get the feeling it was ever meant as a primary attack skill anyway or it wouldn't be so easy to divert, stop, block, interrupt or so hard to control.

stampede is one of the top clear speeds ever since they broke armor explosion. titans are stacking it to 100% aftershock with bleed, and Warcries aggravate bleeding/Aggravate bleeding on hit. to cause the slam to bleed, and the aftershock to aggravate anything that didnt die from the double slam. its actually VERY good at clearing right now.

This is some low effort trolling.

Calling 580 str the "average" Titan is pretty hilarious.

Warbringer survives on armor break for the most part (right now anyway) which is reliant on a good 2 hander that can actually BREAK ARMOR. I've played both ascendancies and where Titan shines is the AoE, not Shouting. And if you want to play a turtle totem build, have fun... until T12+ maps where turtling does nothing unless you have over 20K armor, 6K life and double capped resistances along with charms for every occasion lined up in your inventory. Even then, you're still going to get 1 shot when your totem expires... plus, not a fun playstyle.. at all. but, it does reinforce what I said about titan being the tank build choice.

Warrior has some other builds that are far better than anything you mentioned which just shows you are pigeonholed into whatever your YT god is telling you is best. Try out titan with a cultists warhammer and even ONE AOE node. Go ahead... be amazed at how wrong you were.

But, to say that ONLY TITAN should get a shield is pretty dumb, sorry. Warbringer apparently can't stack as much str if you're saying the AVERAGE (as in totally normal, average, everyday player that is playing casually) can stack 600 Str when it's like pulling teeth for Warbringer to get even 450 Str with some of the best end-game gear you can get. So, do tell me more about that one, lol. (no, really don't. That's rhetorical)

I just said stampede is horrible. Because, it is... it's hard to control, you can't really aim it since it gets diverted by even small enemies into random directions, you can be completely stymied by nothing more than a small rock, you never know if it's going to charge into or harmlessly dance right by bigger enemies, there may or may not be an initial or end slam depending on "reasons" and your aftershock is incredibly linear along with the skill itself. It's just bad... all the way around. The ONLY time it shines is on a map that's completely open, small mobs only, no casters and no fast melee mobs that can swarm you as you do the long initiation of the skill or get double tapped while you're stuck in animation at the end, etc.

I mean.. I can go on if you like, lol.

But, saying Stampede is good at clearing his hilarious. Try mace strike with a weapon that does splash damage and AOE nodes if you want clear speed.

Again... you really don't know the builds available for warrior right now.

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But, to say that ONLY TITAN should get a shield is pretty dumb, sorry. Warbringer apparently can't stack as much str if you're saying the AVERAGE (as in totally normal, average, everyday player that is playing casually) can stack 600 Str when it's like pulling teeth for Warbringer to get even 450 Str with some of the best end-game gear you can get. So, do tell me more about that one, lol. (no, really don't. That's rhetorical)

sure its simple.

as for the shield: ive INSISTED it should be made Incompatible with shields, but you for some reason cant comprehend this.

as for stats?

you get about 20-30 nodes of travel in any given build. thats a baseline of 100-150 STR

No brainer nodes every warrior trying to raise str should take:

Brutal +10
Relentless +10
Beef: +25
Beef Node: +32
Blade Catcher: +15
Brute Strength Cluster: +36
Unbending Cluster: +12
Polymathy Cluster Stats: +16
Polymathy: 10% increased strength
Further Polymathy investment: 18% Reduced STR Requirements (which you can just treat as raw strength for the purposes of this example since reductions and increases are ultimately the same thing)
Annoint Titanic: +5% Increased Strength

That alone, no gear, gives you 320-370 effective strength with zero gear investment. This satisfies hammers up to 107 to 121 Str with zero gear. over half way to supporting the highest STR Req hammers in the game - which arent needed for HOTG 1shots anyways right now.

Gear can hold, on non neck slots, 20-30 Strength. even using low rolls in the 20 range, which finding STR+20~30 affixes is extremely easy - i was able to fill out every slot for one ex a slot when i hit maps. Even at 20 a slot it is still 180 additional strength. This 180 becomes 207 Str thanks to +15% strength in passives, giving you comfortably 527~577 STR using bare minimum +20 rolls. +30 rolls obviously push you up another 104 points giving you 630-680 str.

Still havent even counted that glorious ass neck slot either: your neck can hold easily +50-60 str (57-69) or if you get astramentis 120+(140) strength, bringing your str score to WELL over an effective 700-820 effective strength.


but wahhhhhhhhh getting str is soooooooo harrrrrrrrdd.

even without hulking form, as that really only gets a beefy contribution in the stat reduction nodes, you can still very easily make well over 600 STR as a non titan.

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Sintrias#8675 wrote:

The only way I could see these changes to Giant's Blood being okay is to also put it on a unique item so the possibility for other classes to get it is still there. It makes sense that Giant's Blood would be available to the Warrior's Titan Ascendancy. There's also another possible option too. Leave Giant's Blood where it is, and make an Ascendancy passive called Titan's Blood where rather than tripling stat requirements, they're doubled instead. It would give players the ability to still use 2H weapons as 1H weapons but still make the Titan Warrior better at it. Remember, we still only have half of the classes that will be available after Early Access is over. So, I'm sure there will be other classes that would want Giant's Blood as a possibility.

Yeah moving it to a unique is probably the best way to do it. But then 1H maces need a significant buff. I don't feel like titan itself needs a buff (what about warbringer??), it's maces that are the problem.