Warrior is VERY slow.

"

chobo999#2010 wrote:

Interesting...so which Mace skill/gems are you using for that melee hybrid Sorc build of yours..? As you'll need quite a bit of strength for them no? And where are you getting that strength from...as the passive tree for Sorc lacks strength...And you're tanking via your ES or what..? And how about damage..looking at the Sorc tree briefly, looks more for spell damage, not really melee damage nodes -- what kinda damage nodes are you prioritizing?

I'm only grabbing a few things from the very start of sorc, namely the slow magnitude nodes, the nearby curse node and whatever fire/elemental damage is available near the start, then pathing straight to warrior side. The travel nodes ended up being not too dissimilar from the Hammer of the Gods build, but I'm taking Avatar of Fire and using Perfect Strike for boss clear, and a combo of Stampede and Boneshatter for AoE pack clear (Boneshatter works double time beacuse I use it for armour break on bosses). As for stats, I got 220ish strength and 160ish intelligence atm between passives and gear. As for defense, I'm using full armour... so you know, can't wait for the inevitable armour buff, and obviously damage recoup for recovery layer. I believe I currently have about 80% life recoup between passives and gear.

I do intend to put the build down in writing once I get to later tier maps and have 6-socket gems and stuff to get a more complete feel of it.

Here is a video of what it does to normal mobs:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BdVbj3sKHWmu80aLSYm3pUZMk_oNkSLo/view?usp=sharing

"

ClockworkShrew#7536 wrote:

"

chobo999#2010 wrote:

Interesting...so which Mace skill/gems are you using for that melee hybrid Sorc build of yours..? As you'll need quite a bit of strength for them no? And where are you getting that strength from...as the passive tree for Sorc lacks strength...And you're tanking via your ES or what..? And how about damage..looking at the Sorc tree briefly, looks more for spell damage, not really melee damage nodes -- what kinda damage nodes are you prioritizing?

I'm only grabbing a few things from the very start of sorc, namely the slow magnitude nodes, the nearby curse node and whatever fire/elemental damage is available near the start, then pathing straight to warrior side. The travel nodes ended up being not too dissimilar from the Hammer of the Gods build, but I'm taking Avatar of Fire and using Perfect Strike for boss clear, and a combo of Stampede and Boneshatter for AoE pack clear (Boneshatter works double time beacuse I use it for armour break on bosses). As for stats, I got 220ish strength and 160ish intelligence atm between passives and gear. As for defense, I'm using full armour... so you know, can't wait for the inevitable armour buff, and obviously damage recoup for recovery layer. I believe I currently have about 80% life recoup between passives and gear.

I do intend to put the build down in writing once I get to later tier maps and have 6-socket gems and stuff to get a more complete feel of it.

Here is a video of what it does to normal mobs:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BdVbj3sKHWmu80aLSYm3pUZMk_oNkSLo/view?usp=sharing

Very interesting/creative...thank you for sharing. Yes, that'd be cool if you don't mind :D. Simplest/quickest thing maybe if you could, just take a screenshot of your passive tree and post it on GDrive or something lol (you could also post it on the "Early Access Builds" forum instead of this "EA Feedback" forum, if you haven't in the past).. or if you want to be fancy, mobalytics.gg..But ya..just reading your summary description, it seems like A Lot of nodes lol (from Sorc starting point...or maybe some shortcut somehow at the edge of the tree or something..? lol). Anywho, I'm believing you I think...lol. Like I don't want to give up on warrior (it seems like your build may perhaps still be in the same category or at least a playstyle I may enjoy..not sure until I try it -- I haven't gotten far enough as a melee to have any judgment...lol -- but to be fair...I still have this feeling that GGG has the same playstyle from PoE1...from what I've seen at least...and that's still kinda like 1-shot them before they 1-shot you...and nothing in between...again, a bit unfortunate...as this is the main choice we have...like you just cannot really "tank"...:(... -- still feel this is something that PoE2 won't be able to change from PoE1 :( -- also now w/ the souls-like gameplay, the devs want you to dodge out of the way and not tank anything, which is fine in a way...but again, also kinda removes the warrior basically...lol). I just keep hearing (and I've felt the pain too as a warrior lol) all the bad stuff about melee/warrior and it's kinda demotivating lol (haven't played my lvl 54 warrior since), but maybe this gives me a bit more hope lol (melee sorc).

But ya, I'm most likely gona add that to my list of builds to try if you could share it, after I look at the tree..(like for some reason I'm foreseeing some hurdles like maybe in the lvl 40-50s [and perhaps earlier like 20-40 too] where you still haven't gotten the critical nodes [though maybe those earlier sorc recoup nodes helps and the temp chains/slows..but looks like min level 51 or something like that..] yet as they're so far away from Sorc and such so both you're sustain/def and damage are not there..and so it may be rough patch during that phase of leveling/campaign...but I don't know, again have to see lol) -- I'm currently trying a melee hybrid Merc build (refuse to play warrior currently lol), but your build seems more interesting maybe (though I'm not going all the way over the Ranger/Warrior side of nodes from Merc...only like mid 20s lvl...doing OK so far lol...it has some parallels in a way though...like instead of your curse/temp chain/slow, it's replaced w/ flash grenade/blind/freeze and totem knockbacks..lol -- recoup sounds like a nice blindspot I had...never tried it before and never heard of it actually, too bad Merc doesn't really have it...lol [but looks like it's a stat on gear...cool...] -- [I may wana park it for later and re-roll sorc...but also was trying Witch minion build lol...was alright at like lvl 21 or so...was like if you can't beat em, join em..at least I can tank w/ my minons, right? Lol]).

Just some more quick follow-up questions for your build..:
-Briefly looked up recoup gear (recoup nodes seem strong, thanks). So it looks like there are only like 4 pieces of gear that have the stat, all unique. I'm guessing you're using Temporalis/Wandering Reliq? Those are the 2 that have recoup life? Dang..I don't wana have to use the Trade system to get this :(
-Guess you didn't need to level up/prioritize your Temp Chains that much? Looks like it's like 119 int minimum of your 160 int. But ya I guess you only need the base slow really.
-Do you use a shield..? How's your block chance..? Is that priority at all for your melee sorc? Was wondering if you could lean on 2H weapon instead or something (or go all out Giant's Blood...lol)?
-I'd personally also try to experiment (just me lol) most likely tweak it to take advantage more of ES, and most likely not prioritize armor as much, and see how that is (been mainly trying to avoid armor at all costs every since all the armor drama...lol [and well there are plenty already for Sorc {But of course if there's an actual change (buff?) to armor then I'd shift back priority over more armor over ES...all depends :P}])
-Also curious, how was your experience in the campaign earlier levels like 20-40..? Looking at the tree more and your direction to warrior nodes and getting temp chains much later...was the sustain from recoup/no ES enough during this time..? I'd imagine it'd be kinda painful like warrior (as a melee sorc) perhaps..? Lol
-I'm also considering just swapping out your armor piece for Cloak of Flames actually and not have to invest in like 20 armor passive nodes...lol...that may actually be a decent upgrade lol (but not after the nerf perhaps...lol [credit Kripp for this idea...lol]) - thoughts? Lol

"

chobo999#2010 wrote:

Just some more quick follow-up questions for your build..:
-Briefly looked up recoup gear (recoup nodes seem strong, thanks). So it looks like there are only like 4 pieces of gear that have the stat, all unique. I'm guessing you're using Temporalis/Wandering Reliq? Those are the 2 that have recoup life? Dang..I don't wana have to use the Trade system to get this :(
-Guess you didn't need to level up/prioritize your Temp Chains that much? Looks like it's like 119 int minimum of your 160 int. But ya I guess you only need the base slow really.
-Do you use a shield..? How's your block chance..? Is that priority at all for your melee sorc? Was wondering if you could lean on 2H weapon instead or something (or go all out Giant's Blood...lol)?
-I'd personally also try to experiment (just me lol) most likely tweak it to take advantage more of ES, and most likely not prioritize armor as much, and see how that is (been mainly trying to avoid armor at all costs every since all the armor drama...lol [and well there are plenty already for Sorc {But of course if there's an actual change (buff?) to armor then I'd shift back priority over more armor over ES...all depends :P}])
-Also curious, how was your experience in the campaign earlier levels like 20-40..? Looking at the tree more and your direction to warrior nodes and getting temp chains much later...was the sustain from recoup/no ES enough during this time..? I'd imagine it'd be kinda painful like warrior (as a melee sorc) perhaps..? Lol
-I'm also considering just swapping out your armor piece for Cloak of Flames actually and not have to invest in like 20 armor passive nodes...lol...that may actually be a decent upgrade lol (but not after the nerf perhaps...lol [credit Kripp for this idea...lol]) - thoughts? Lol

-My biggest problem was in the 15-35 range, but part of that was cause my pathing was not ideal, as I was running an alternative version and didn't take some nodes that would've boosted my fire damage. I was
-Oil grenade is a useful alternative tool starting at level 31, which I didn't think of until maps. I haven't tried flash grenade.
-Amulets can roll recoup of both life and mana. I am not using any uniques at the moment, and am pending testing them.
-I am maxing out my Temp Chains as much as I can. It is currently level 16, requiring 151 INT. Weapon swap sets help early on since you can get some big +10 INT nodes at the start of sorceress.
-Armour nodes are easier to get in the warrior area where most of your focus will be. I originally focused Armour+ES in the Templar area, but the build path was way weaker. I'd rather just wait for GGG to balance armour.
-I have 0 need for blocking and don't use a shield. Temporal Chains slowing everyone serves, essentially, the same purpose, by making me have to be hit a fraction of the times I normally would be.
-Early game was fine as far as life went. like, the flask did most of the job. I didn't take any recoup early on.
-Cloak of Flames will probably work since armour is kinda trash atm, but I am, again, hoping they'll just fix armour instead.

You can find a more detailed dive into the build here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3668082

"

ClockworkShrew#7536 wrote:

-My biggest problem was in the 15-35 range, but part of that was cause my pathing was not ideal, as I was running an alternative version and didn't take some nodes that would've boosted my fire damage. I was
-Oil grenade is a useful alternative tool starting at level 31, which I didn't think of until maps. I haven't tried flash grenade.
-Amulets can roll recoup of both life and mana. I am not using any uniques at the moment, and am pending testing them.
-I am maxing out my Temp Chains as much as I can. It is currently level 16, requiring 151 INT. Weapon swap sets help early on since you can get some big +10 INT nodes at the start of sorceress.
-Armour nodes are easier to get in the warrior area where most of your focus will be. I originally focused Armour+ES in the Templar area, but the build path was way weaker. I'd rather just wait for GGG to balance armour.
-I have 0 need for blocking and don't use a shield. Temporal Chains slowing everyone serves, essentially, the same purpose, by making me have to be hit a fraction of the times I normally would be.
-Early game was fine as far as life went. like, the flask did most of the job. I didn't take any recoup early on.
-Cloak of Flames will probably work since armour is kinda trash atm, but I am, again, hoping they'll just fix armour instead.

You can find a more detailed dive into the build here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3668082

Found it on Mobalytics. Nice - very well-written, comprehensive, and cool tree (it doesn't look that inefficient actually and not that far away from Sorc start...lol)! (just noticed minor typos but overall very good [like "burnign", "bos"]) Thank you. Gives me some insight into the late-game/mapping ...which I do intend to get to eventually...I just need a shift my mindset just a tad on the game design for the playstyle perhaps for late-game (and campaign [warriors are not meant to tank a single hit for bosses no matter you mass armor/block/life/resis/etc! lol -- and, just build more damage for the constant hit-n-runs!]), (but still think there's plenty more to explore as long as I can change my mindset a bit! But again, I do like your build...as it's still closer to anything else I've seen so far in terms of more slower methodical melee combat, perhaps not exactly "tank" yes, but at least not like complete zoom zoom 1-shot either...there's some sort of balance here, in terms of playstyle right?).

Thanks for the responses to the quick follow-up (just some quick remarks: I guess/assuming you're prioritizing temp chains more for survivability on elite mobs and/or bosses perhaps at the expense of some damage...right..? Or perhaps the extra Int is still helping out some for the elemental damage..? Not sure.. [like just wondering if you could perhaps sacrifice some int/temp chains/survivability in favor of more str/damage maybe] -- no shield sounds crazy lol! nah but I get it [saw the short clip, thank you for sharing]..temp chains does mitigate and help out quite a bit actually for sure and can/does work well [from the clip]..creative... and ya, during bosses, I guess it's more about dodge roll, which is fine...just perhaps not too extreme..lol [maybe GGG can allow the warrior to get hit and not get 1-shot but like survive it w/ low hp..lol..I digress] -- though also I don't think I've seen too many late-game/map builds w/ shields [nevermind, just saw 1 w/ shield lol and it was like T15..lol]....you save plenty of shield/block nodes at least --just curious, did you ever test Giant's Blood over Avatar of Fire..in terms of damage diff? I know you spec'd more for fire/elemental stuff [nodes/gem/gear] but double 2H-weapon..! lol [maybe it's too big of a change during your progression..])

"

ClockworkShrew#7536 wrote:

-My biggest problem was in the 15-35 range, but part of that was cause my pathing was not ideal, as I was running an alternative version and didn't take some nodes that would've boosted my fire damage. I was
-Oil grenade is a useful alternative tool starting at level 31, which I didn't think of until maps. I haven't tried flash grenade.
-Amulets can roll recoup of both life and mana. I am not using any uniques at the moment, and am pending testing them.
-I am maxing out my Temp Chains as much as I can. It is currently level 16, requiring 151 INT. Weapon swap sets help early on since you can get some big +10 INT nodes at the start of sorceress.
-Armour nodes are easier to get in the warrior area where most of your focus will be. I originally focused Armour+ES in the Templar area, but the build path was way weaker. I'd rather just wait for GGG to balance armour.
-I have 0 need for blocking and don't use a shield. Temporal Chains slowing everyone serves, essentially, the same purpose, by making me have to be hit a fraction of the times I normally would be.
-Early game was fine as far as life went. like, the flask did most of the job. I didn't take any recoup early on.
-Cloak of Flames will probably work since armour is kinda trash atm, but I am, again, hoping they'll just fix armour instead.

You can find a more detailed dive into the build here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3668082

Just some initial thoughts I had post briefly looking at your Mobalytics build -- you don't necessarily have to follow-up on (any of) it, but it's just a bit of extra "context" lol -- up to you...or maybe the other forum thread is perhaps the most relevant place (or part of it)...thanks:
-how would the experience be like in reverse for the earlier levels onto mid game if I started as warrior moving over to Sorc nodes...lol...(who knows lol. May as well try both routes lol...long road ahead to explore.. -- and of course progression late-game/mapping will take more time to optimize..I believe I should at least continue to explore more despite some overall community negativity on the end-game...but judgment on this topic requires more actual experience..in due time..)
-I'm sure there must be a phase during late-game/mapping where you got to farm quite a bit to be able to get more currency to "craft" some upgrades for existing gear/gems (jeweler orbs, etc), right in order to progress further into mapping...anyways -- but, kinda curious how much farming it took to find enough jeweler orbs for all your skills..(can we find them any other way..? lol -- guess it's a gradual progression of a bunch of optimizations..)
-maybe time to shelf my (uncooked but still cooking..) melee hybrid Freeze Merc and minion Witch, and debating between Sorc/Warrior (and if I can salvage my existing warrior if it is back to warrior.. -- I recall it was both defense/offense really that my lvl 54 warrior lacked...didn't do well in campaign I felt lol...and refund a bunch of passive nodes at lvl 54 is too expensive I think lol...anyway [change mindset to: you cannot "tank" the bosses, you must dodge roll...so...I mean technically I guess my main issue was offense lol -- just got to change that mindset on this game design lol -- but it's nice to see perspective of the early/mid-game from Sorc side of things])
-never ascended any of my classes yet (felt the honor system was so uncooked for melee in terms of losing honor if you got hit...LOL..."test of strength" it was called...more like "test of cowardice"!)...and yes, that would affect your chronomancer (even more recoup from ascendency wow! and more slows -- temporal rift seems cool..have yet to try..) build if titan/warbringer (if I start as warrior and go to sorc nodes) along w/ a bunch of other stuff of course..I digress
-your guide gives solid insight into some of the "hurdles" at specific points as well (starting from Sorc)...and will go through it thanks
-still more to explore and not giving up on melee yet (lol)! Rather, shifting my mindset in terms of the game's design and working w/ it and not against it. (I just hope I have fun w/ the playstyle late-game/mapping lol and hopefully don't encounter all the woes some of the community is sharing in terms of how the endgame is so uncooked... -- [pls GGG, somehow allow the ability to "tank" more!! lol -- yes, goes against the PoE1 end-game but maybe it's time to break the mold..! Or perhaps maybe by year 2030..? Lol] -- but, again, I do like this build of yours as it kinda mimics tanking in a way...lol...and in this game design, it may be as close to it! So current, it's either zoom zoom 1-shot...or... the Slow-Burn Melee Chronomancer...at least what I'm aware of...lol :P)
-considering starting off w/ Cloak of Flames (I actually do have 1...for some reason..lol..really didn't feel like abusing it...as post-nerfing it would be bad Lol) potentially and bypassing all the armor nodes in favor of some more ES/damage nodes...just to see how it is...maybe.
-just curious you mentioned T10 maps you're at...what's happening at the later maps? Like, what kinda issues is your build running into..? Not enough damage/sustain or what..? (I'm not really sure as again I have lvl 54 warrior as my highest class so far lol)
-it's a clever build..making use of Stampede too, nice synergy w/ temp chains. (when I first saw that skill/gem I was like wtf no thanks lol, but you managed to actually make use of it well done...also technically I've actually never even tried it yet as my warrior is lvl 54 still lol)
-I'm assuming you crafted that bloodstone amulet right? how many tries until you got that recoup stat..? (and how much currency spent and how long to get that currency...o.O)
-curious, have you ever looked into Distilled Emotions/annoints..? (not sure if that may give an upgrade to your build?)

its very typical GGG to go all in and slam something several times needlessly

attack speed for warriors, for example. the base weapons already have the lowest base attack speed in the game
but wait, theres more!
the passive tree has very little attack speed available in the area in comparison to other classes
but wait, theres more!
every freakin melee skill has a less attack speed penalty on the skill gem. Attack Speed: 60% of base. 75% of base. even 45% of base. its insane
but wait, theres more!!
now you have an unscalable base attack time associated with several skill gems you have as warrior

gee, thanks gee gee gee


look, if they want to have base attack time put on the gem - whatever. if they want your weapons to have the lowest attack speed in the game - whatever. but please for the love of god remove the attack speed penalty from every skill gem in the game. there is no reason for it to be there

Pro tip:

Don't use skills that don't benefit from attack speed, like sunder.

Currently flying through the map with Leap Slam, Bone shatter and perfect strike dual wielding 2h hammers.

Yes T16.

"

xMustard#3403 wrote:

its very typical GGG to go all in and slam something several times needlessly

attack speed for warriors, for example. the base weapons already have the lowest base attack speed in the game
but wait, theres more!
the passive tree has very little attack speed available in the area in comparison to other classes
but wait, theres more!
every freakin melee skill has a less attack speed penalty on the skill gem. Attack Speed: 60% of base. 75% of base. even 45% of base. its insane
but wait, theres more!!
now you have an unscalable base attack time associated with several skill gems you have as warrior

gee, thanks gee gee gee


look, if they want to have base attack time put on the gem - whatever. if they want your weapons to have the lowest attack speed in the game - whatever. but please for the love of god remove the attack speed penalty from every skill gem in the game. there is no reason for it to be there

Even more, there are a lot of rare mods that punish players to not stay in one place over 1 sec, if the mods are perfectly rolled, you can't even cast a right slam infront of a rare monster.

"

NiceGuy69#1759 wrote:

Pro tip:

Don't use skills that don't benefit from attack speed, like sunder.

Currently flying through the map with Leap Slam, Bone shatter and perfect strike dual wielding 2h hammers.

Yes T16.

But how is that a pro tip? They put the skill in the game and consciously coded it the way that it is, so it should be just as viable as any other skill.

"

Andalha#6923 wrote:

"

NiceGuy69#1759 wrote:

Pro tip:

Don't use skills that don't benefit from attack speed, like sunder.

Currently flying through the map with Leap Slam, Bone shatter and perfect strike dual wielding 2h hammers.

Yes T16.

But how is that a pro tip? They put the skill in the game and consciously coded it the way that it is, so it should be just as viable as any other skill.

Well the ones that are coded slow are intended to be used slow to push you toward nodes that give you big damage but slow your attack speed.