One Death = Game Over: A Frustrating Design Choice

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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innov0401mac#3293 wrote:

The problem isn't about dying. The problem is the loot! We can't pick up the loot when we die. Even in Tier 1, with a level 100 character ready for T16, you can have bad luck and die. And because of that, we lose our loot? No, that's not fair!

Since dying is what prevents you from picking up your loot then dying is actually infact your problem.

Or seen from a larger scale skill issue is your real problem.
Please just do lower tier maps and focus on getting better. Instead of making whiny crying posts here about how you want them to make the game easier for you. If you dont like it then its not a game for you

Picking up the loot, or not losing it... Why make the game easier for me and harder for you if you leave 1 Exalted on the ground? Help me understand, please.

EDIT:
I could live with having one pet to auto-pick up currency (only), and I’d easily pay 1000 coins for that.

I want to piggyback off of this as well. I just spent over an hour doing the garbage Trials to try and get my lol 3rd ascendency (very bad design choice). I killed the boss and while he collapsed, and the game said trial finished and DIED to some random fucking thing shotting me after the fact. Guess what, FAILED. This is such a gut punch that I am now contemplating continuing playing at all.

This is the kind of cheap frustration that makes people quit and not come back. There is 0 point in the quadruple punishment inflicted on the player. We already got death penalty in exp loss. Why make the game more frustration with having 1 death game over? It would work if it did not take so much time to complete a lot of these things. Hours lost. Let's just say if the Trials where cut in half, even that is still a lot but at least not such a time sink. Mapping is no different. PoE 1 you had 6 chances, PoE 2 1 chance. Let's say you accidentally stumble across the boss or extremely had add and get one tapped because you didn't know in time... Let's make it even worse when you get 1 tapped by something OFF screen.

GGG, I still trust you guys, but it is time to start showing us you don't want to lose players. We are not asking for the game to be easy, just not punishing the players to the point that we feel our time was wasted. We put a lot of hours into this game, and we deserve better for our support.

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Dark_Lord_Basada#0943 wrote:

I want to piggyback off of this as well. I just spent over an hour doing the garbage Trials to try and get my lol 3rd ascendency (very bad design choice). I killed the boss and while he collapsed, and the game said trial finished and DIED to some random fucking thing shotting me after the fact. Guess what, FAILED. This is such a gut punch that I am now contemplating continuing playing at all.

This is the kind of cheap frustration that makes people quit and not come back. There is 0 point in the quadruple punishment inflicted on the player. We already got death penalty in exp loss. Why make the game more frustration with having 1 death game over? It would work if it did not take so much time to complete a lot of these things. Hours lost. Let's just say if the Trials where cut in half, even that is still a lot but at least not such a time sink. Mapping is no different. PoE 1 you had 6 chances, PoE 2 1 chance. Let's say you accidentally stumble across the boss or extremely had add and get one tapped because you didn't know in time... Let's make it even worse when you get 1 tapped by something OFF screen.

GGG, I still trust you guys, but it is time to start showing us you don't want to lose players. We are not asking for the game to be easy, just not punishing the players to the point that we feel our time was wasted. We put a lot of hours into this game, and we deserve better for our support.

"just not punishing the players to the point that we feel our time was wasted." - By: Dark_Lord_Basada#0943

100% This

POE2 doesn't have a one death = game over feature, even hardcore doesn't actually delete you.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

Since dying is what prevents you from picking up your loot then dying is actually infact your problem.

Or seen from a larger scale skill issue is your real problem.
Please just do lower tier maps and focus on getting better. Instead of making whiny crying posts here about how you want them to make the game easier for you. If you dont like it then its not a game for you

You didn't direct this at me - but I'll respond, anyhow.

This is not a hard game. At all. Sure pre-cruel some bosses seemed to have inflated HP but it was not "hard".

What sucks is getting killed by ??? because you couldn't see what happened.

Because 30 mobs spawned outside of screen bounds and jumped from the outer bounds where you can't see to being on top of you, which the game's physics doesn't allow, so you and the mobs are ping-ponged around the screen and you can't control your character because physics and collision broke but enemies are still attacking you so you die from ???

There was supposed to be a visual indicator for an ODE but because there's blood and bodies everywhere it's buried and you can't see it so you die from ???

Or you're in Blighttown crossing a catwalk and the CPU decides to spawn 10 guys on either side of you trapping you in despite the "hurr durr 1px dodge roll" and you're left to eat a death because one side is nothing but turrets and the other side are casters and melee with ODE so you die from CLEARLY being out-played by the CPU, m'kay?

I can go on.

The game - if the audiovisual feedback loop was fixed, the visual clutter was cleaned up, there were direct and easily readable warnings for impending pops that aren't hidden by dead bodies or shitty environment, the CPU decided not to spawn mob you to break physics so you die randomly, etc - if all that shit was fixed the game would be a cakewalk.

A cakewalk. There's nothing remarkable about the difficulty of the design of any of these fights. They are awesome, but they - just like any other boss - are patterns you can simply learn and move through. What you can't avoid, is horrible design. Not being able to see due to clutter, the environment, particle effects, etc. That's not my fault or anyone else's fault the game is not readable - that's on the devs.

The game is CLEARLY in a pre-alpha state right now and nowhere near Early Access. Having worked in some higher end games I would never have pulled the trigger to let it out this early. The design team hasn't appeared to have even given any of this a first pass yet. Horrible decision to do this now. Maybe in 6 months internally they could have had something cleaner but right now the visual feedback loop is the worse I've seen in a game, hands down.

That is INCREDIBLY important. Having worked on some Bullet Hell games you never want the player to question how they died. I mean you don't want that in any game but if Bullet Hell games can do it - an ARPG can do it. This game def needs a LOT more time in the oven before it should have hit EA. Just my .02 I would not have pulled the trigger on this. No way. Not in this state.

I don't think GGG understands why the game is hard - because there's nothing that stands out as being hard to me. It's just very bad design, very bad feedback loops, screen readability is poor, etc. Stuff that CAN be fixed - but what happens when it is? Nothing here is really ground-breaking for difficulty.

Like pacing is a bit slower but not because of movement, because you have to let some ODE finish so you can move past them without dying so you have to wait for the effect to go away. Because you have to constantly funnel mobs backwards so you keep retracing your steps since it's hard to see ODE so you play it safe by retracing your steps. That's asshole design, not good design. I don't think GGG understands -why- the game is tedious or why people die so much - because the feedback loop and the gameplay loop, by extension, are horrible.

So I disagree when you say it's a skill issue. Skill issue implies you can learn to get around it - but you can't learn to see what you can't see because it's hidden or sometimes doesn't even spawn like those purple giant worm heads. Sometimes on a clean surface the sigil won't spawn beneath you warning you you are about to get got - then the head just spawns and chomps you. You can't out-play that. That's not a "skill" issue - that's a "game's fucked up" issue. You can't out-play mobs you can't even see yet jumping on top of you from outside of the screen and so many so fast it causes physics and collision to break sending you flying around the screen while you can't control your dude so you eat a death. That's not a skill issue. Hell no lmao. Game is broke in so many ways it's not even funny anymore.

This endgame is not it, frustrating to only have one chance at maps, bosses I haven't fought in a long time and better remember everything they do or get one shot and fail the map has caused me to run out completely.

After dieing they take away all the endgame mechanics you are even playing to do and making it a blank map you don't even want to do anymore. Can't play this anymore until stuff changes and hope can do it soon

Are there some scaling issues in maps? Sure, but its not awful until you get into double digits and if you are dead in low tier maps (sub 10) the issue is a combination of

Build
Gear
Skill

I suggest farming content that suits you until one of the three has improved then progress a little more. Rinse and repeat.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

Or seen from a larger scale skill issue is your real problem.
Please just do lower tier maps and focus on getting better. Instead of making whiny crying posts here about how you want them to make the game easier for you. If you dont like it then its not a game for you

Lol! Do you even play the game, or are you just like so many others... "As long as the world burns, it's all good"?

+1
It sucks, needs to be reverted to 6 portals.

Don't listen to the "git gud" crowd, they'll defend any bad game design if it inflates their ego even a bit.

level 75 , map tier 5 now and have any one shot dead , 72 % damage absorption . range hurt me before so i also pick up the nod projectile bulwark all resistance around 60 to 70 chaos is a bit low with 20 to 30 ,feel all good for now , i use Brass Dome very good for starting and very cheap 1 ex also. no Extra Damage from Critical Hits and very good with projectile bulwark . for starting on a budget i feel is good