The campaign is too easy imo

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

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jersch_#2179 wrote:

How do you explain all those threads complaining the game is actually too much like poe1?
There really does not seem to be any consense if the game is too much or not enough like poe1.
I do enjoy the game btw but i do think it still has a lot in common with poe1
(which imo is a good thing).

"All those threads". Thousands of players playing right now and here we have threads almost always about the same 5 topics. Free respec vs cost for respec, trials are bad, rant because of certain nerfs, people who demand PoE2 being more like PoE1 and complains about endgame. From my perspective, the same people just keep argueing here. The majority plays the game and doesn't even bother with the forum at all.

And yes, ofc there are bridges between PoE1 and PoE2. It's called Path of Exile 2, so certain similarities are to be expected. But it will definitely not be a copy of PoE1 and its gameplay-loop. And some seem to have a hard time because it's not a PoE1 with better grafics.

Its gameplay loop is exactly the same. They have stated nothing to contrary. The loop will be rush the campaign, grind maps, beat the pinnacle bosses while doing the league mechanic. The exact same gameplay loop as PoE1.

That's like saying PoE1/2 is the same as D4, because you also rush through campaign and then have endgame content. Many games have the same gameloop, but feel very different. The exact same gameloop doesn't automatically mean that the game plays/feels the same. It's more slow paced, bosses usually take way longer to beat (except for some brutal meta builds that get nerfed soon) and you actually need to dodge in order to beat the bosses.

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Mathuziel#4767 wrote:

Are you sure these new players are coming to PoE 2 to play it each season for years to come?
If they are coming from Soulslike games, the majority will play the campaign once, maybe all the endgame to kill all the bosses, a minority will do it 2~3 times to experiment with other classes. An even smaller minority will stick around for longer.

Given that PoE 2 will be free to play as is PoE 1, the business model from GGG is simular, they want the majority of their players to to be what usually is the "smaller minority" of Soulslike games, to keep returning to the game.

PoE needs to strike a good balance between challenge and replayability to live on, it cant be a long and unfair challenge all the way.

PoE 1 does that mostly by its complexity and size, which GGG is clearly trying to steer from in favor of a more challenging gameplay with less complex systems.
I personally like this vision for PoE 2, but I can see all the problems that could arise or are arising if some of these challenges are perceived as unfair/tedious and they need to be address or given tools to work with.

Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. Over half of the content is still missing. We are talking about many weapon types, their respective skills, 6 playable character-classes and their ascendencies and another 3 acts. And this content is only for the actual full release. After that, we will get new seasons, new game mechanics, new orbs, new gems/skills, new passives. You expect PoE2 to be big as PoE1 is currently, but PoE1 had 11 years of development, while PoE2 is still in EA.

So yes, players will return to this game every season, similiar to PoE1, because GGG will introduce enough new content that players want to try out.

That's like saying PoE1/2 is the same as D4, because you also rush through campaign and then have endgame content. Many games have the same gameloop, but feel very different. The exact same gameloop doesn't automatically mean that the game plays/feels the same. It's more slow paced, bosses usually take way longer to beat (except for some brutal meta builds that get nerfed soon) and you actually need to dodge in order to beat the bosses. [/quote]

The game feels like PoE1 but slower. The bosses are not special and get nuked easily in campaign (even as early as act1) if you get lucky with gear. Even non meta builds have a much much easier time and become faster as the build fills out. It is why Cruel is considered easer than non cruel. It is the nature of ARPGs that efficiency and speed become king at endgame farming. To stop this you would have to nerf not just meta builds, but virtually all builds that are remotely successful in the game. Or make everything drastically harder. Neither of which will fly.

the acts are super easy just boring and tedious every boss is just walk in circles and hit till its dead. omegaboring

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

The game feels like PoE1 but slower. The bosses are not special and get nuked easily in campaign (even as early as act1) if you get lucky with gear. Even non meta builds have a much much easier time and become faster as the build fills out. It is why Cruel is considered easer than non cruel. It is the nature of ARPGs that efficiency and speed become king at endgame farming. To stop this you would have to nerf not just meta builds, but virtually all builds that are remotely successful in the game. Or make everything drastically harder. Neither of which will fly.

Then show me a game where bosses feel "special". Right now, many reviewers clearly say that PoE2 feels way more challenging then PoE1 and that bosses feel great. And I've seen enough people here and ingame saying the same. Ofc there will always be these 2-3 builds the rock everything. Or players that are way to skilled to feel challenged at all. But in PoE1 I can have the shittiest build and trash equipment and still beat all 10 acts without much problems at all. And btw.: you don't know if Act 4-6 will be as easy as cruel Act 1-3.

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

Then show me a game where bosses feel "special". Right now, many reviewers clearly say that PoE2 feels way more challenging then PoE1 and that bosses feel great. And I've seen enough people here and ingame saying the same. Ofc there will always be these 2-3 builds the rock everything. But in PoE1 I can have the shittiest build and trash equipment and still beat all 10 acts without much problems at all. And you don't know if Act 4-6 will be as easy as cruel Act 1-3.

I can think of none in ARPGs like PoE2. Any boss in FFXIV raids (described as more of a dance, than a fight). The solo bosses there in Bozjan in FFXIV. Elden ring bosses feel special since it entirely comes down to player skill and have a wide variety of range of attacks and how they can link together allowing for much more player skill expression without the need for special mechanics. As to why people find them special? I can't say. Maybe it is because they look nice, which sadly is all it takes for a lot of people to think something is special.

An ARPG with only a spamable dodge (and shield block if you have a shield) has a lot less tools to make bosses actually something special than a full 3d game. Throw in that gear has so much player power tied to it, if you do manage to make an actually special boss, simply getting lucky drops allows you to pretty much ignore the engaging parts of the boss. This means their difficulty is largely just reliant in big numbers rather than mechanics.

Not everyone has been able to play 24/7 since launch.

Just sayin'

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

Then show me a game where bosses feel "special". Right now, many reviewers clearly say that PoE2 feels way more challenging then PoE1 and that bosses feel great. And I've seen enough people here and ingame saying the same. Ofc there will always be these 2-3 builds the rock everything. But in PoE1 I can have the shittiest build and trash equipment and still beat all 10 acts without much problems at all. And you don't know if Act 4-6 will be as easy as cruel Act 1-3.

I can think of none in ARPGs like PoE2. Any boss in FFXIV raids (described as more of a dance, than a fight). The solo bosses there in Bozjan in FFXIV. Elden ring bosses feel special since it entirely comes down to player skill and have a wide variety of range of attacks and how they can link together allowing for much more player skill expression without the need for special mechanics. As to why people find them special? I can't say. Maybe it is because they look nice, which sadly is all it takes for a lot of people to think something is special.

Raids do not really count. They are not meant to be killed by a solo-player and they often require alot of organization, so that the raid can succeed.

And Elden Ring Bosses can be as easy as PoE2 bosses. Once you know the movements, it's piss easy. You can literally kill any boss in Elden Ring with the starter stats/equipment. Yes, you get one-shotted by anything, but there are players who even managed a no-hit run. And there are some one-shot builds in Elden Ring too, but most players don't use them, because it takes the fun out of Elden Ring.

See here:
https://youtu.be/6r0go801BBo?t=129

I bet this boss felt really special for the player...

A game that offers much freedom in character building will always offer certain over-powered possibilities. But GGG tries to deliver a different experience compared to PoE1. Ofc you can use those 2-3 meta builds to crush everything, but many players seem to enjoy the game with other skill layouts that may not be so effective.

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

An ARPG with only a spamable dodge (and shield block if you have a shield) has a lot less tools to make bosses actually something special than a full 3d game. Throw in that gear has so much player power tied to it, if you do manage to make an actually special boss, simply getting lucky drops allows you to pretty much ignore the engaging parts of the boss meaning their difficulty is largely just reliant in big numbers rather than mechanics.

Well, then please make a video of a full hardcore run in PoE2 without dying once. If everything is so easy as you mention here, that should be no problem at all, right?

Poe2 does NOT deliver any freedom for builds. All that large scale skill tree is an illusion, not reality. In reality skills and support skills have the same descriptive texts that does not explain anything to new players. These texts are copypasted. Even the leveling builds suggested everywhere are 1:1 copies of poe1 mechanics. This game is poe1 with stronger bosses, longer walking and no crafting.

I hit a barrier when building my char. Because i didn't exspect the game to be the exact copy of poe1. It takes a while to understand that. 40h of fun and then 60 hours of struggle in act 3 cruel and nothing can be done to reset this. So i end up not reaching end game. After wasting 100 hours into figuring out why this happened. I will never play this campaign again. Not for a new char, nor for a new season, because i already had. And given the absurdity of non existing freedom in an illusion full of freedom, i'm really upset that a game company ruined the time i tried to enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, i LOVE challenging gameplay. But building dead ends for players and bloating things up to keep up the player time: No. No way. For that, the content must have true variety and enjoyment. And going a specific path, poe2 is missing both.

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aFlawks#0662 wrote:

Do we want this game's campaign to be like PoE1, being supplied with everything you need by just rushing from boss to boss in the shortest, most optimized, pathing possible? Just something to get through before the actual game begins?

I sure don't.

The only thing I know is I want you to write a full on how to play guide. Clearly I'm not doing it right. :D