Punishment needed for fake traders

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Revnaut#0808 wrote:

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Kirana#3430 wrote:

Price fixing on an AH requires risk. There is no risk when you can list a fake price and just ignore buyers. That's the problem.

There's also the second type of price fixing, which is an item monopoly. A group of people can instantly buy out all of a popular item, then re-list it at any price they want. AH would make this infinitely worse.

At least that requires risk and capital. They have to actually buy the items to pull this off, on a game with hundreds of thousands to a million active players this gets very difficult.

I actually don't want an auction house. I like the system as is, requiring direct interaction and friction for trades solves a lot of problems.

I just think they need to tweak something so there's a small amount of skin in the game from the seller to make fake listings a less profitable tactic.

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Revnaut#0808 wrote:

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Kirana#3430 wrote:

Price fixing on an AH requires risk. There is no risk when you can list a fake price and just ignore buyers. That's the problem.

There's also the second type of price fixing, which is an item monopoly. A group of people can instantly buy out all of a popular item, then re-list it at any price they want. AH would make this infinitely worse.

1. You can do that with the non-AH system too.

2. As I mentioned, that requires risk. When you gouge the price of that item, others will eventually try to sell more of that item as well (which you must continue to buy to maintain the fix), and you have no guarantee that people will actually buy at you new fixed price. The market will correct itself to equilibrium. Smart players will notice this when they see it, and wait for the undercutters.

As annoying as that it, in all fairness, it can also just be that people listed items too cheaply and get spammed 10 times the moment it goes on the trade site (happened to me once). Of course you would then usually just increase price if that happens since it's a clear indicator that you undervalued your item by a significant margin.

My advice for buying items if no one ever responds to a certain price, is to just set a higher minimum buyout price in the tradesite and avoid having to whisper 100 people that way

I think the bottom line here is that this is a free market, and there is no good way to stop this. I mean, what exactly is the proposed solution?

- If you don't sell an item after 5 whispers, the item gets automatically unlisted? This can be abused to hell.
- GGG steps in and unlists items they deem to be price fixing. That means GGG is the one to determine every item's value. No longer free market.

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Revnaut#0808 wrote:

I think the bottom line here is that this is a free market, and there is no good way to stop this. I mean, what exactly is the proposed solution?

- If you don't sell an item after 5 whispers, the item gets automatically unlisted? This can be abused to hell.
- GGG steps in and unlists items they deem to be price fixing. That means GGG is the one to determine every item's value. No longer free market.

I was thinking it could be pretty easily handled with some simple automated rules focusing on the people doing it at large scale, that is likely where the issue lies.

I.e. if you have an item up and don't respond or trade it to 100+ unique player-whispers, your items stop showing up in trade searches for 24h. (or hell, even just THAT item)

People are focusing too much on the "but what if I'm playing and I don't respond" where as the people price fixing at scale are likely posting items that generate hundreds to THOUSANDS of whisper/trade requests a day and ignoring them all. That is where the true problem lies.

Wanna know who's responsible for sneaky stuff like that?

Go on Twitch and check out PoE2 .

All top PoE1 streamers you see ''grinding'' pay close attention to their drops while they are streaming.

Never of any worth ever drops , yet their party (people they always play with) is fully capped on mats.

They already have rarest items , multiples of each , all of them.

Those are people who promote PoE and people GGG gives all benefits to.

Scammers, RMT , basically people responsive for ruining whole PoE trading system.

But no surprise there. It happens in CoD , D2 , D4 , Last Epoch , and its gonna happen here as well. As long as Activision, Blizzard , Eleventh Hour Games and GGG benefits off of those streamers (free 24/7 promotion on biggest streaming platform) they will allow them to behave any way they want.

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TheRobinofHamingnott#5854 wrote:

As annoying as that it, in all fairness, it can also just be that people listed items too cheaply and get spammed 10 times the moment it goes on the trade site (happened to me once). Of course you would then usually just increase price if that happens since it's a clear indicator that you undervalued your item by a significant margin.

My advice for buying items if no one ever responds to a certain price, is to just set a higher minimum buyout price in the tradesite and avoid having to whisper 100 people that way

That's completely fine, I don't think the issue is a person ignoring 10 whispers and then repricing, it's someone ignoring hundreds to thousands of whispers a day, and leaving the items up indefinitely.

People are at a point where leaving a map to trade for 1ex isnt even worth it.

Secondly people list an item way too low, get literally 20 whispers in 1 second, and relist higher. Its a live auction seller vs all the active search traders this is very common with people that know what they are doing.

Trading in poe is ruthless and thats why I like it, the more you know the easier it becomes. You HAVE to become impersonal with people. That means if the guy selling an item you want for 1ex doesnt respond in 10 seconds, you just whisper the next. You are going to have an awful time being a courteous trader, so just dont. No one cares its a video game, if you whisper 5 people in 10 seconds for an item you can trade the first that responds and ghost the rest, who cares?

I do not stop mapping or leave my map to sell something unless the person joins the party, im not at all inconvincied by spam buyers like this. Its like 2 clicks wasted and 2 seconds of my life its bo big deal. Ya if the second you get a whisper you portal out and wait that sucks and stop doing that.

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BossOfThisGym#2062 wrote:

People are at a point where leaving a map to trade for 1ex isnt even worth it.

Secondly people list an item way too low, get literally 20 whispers in 1 second, and relist higher. Its a live auction seller vs all the active search traders this is very common with people that know what they are doing.

Trading in poe is ruthless and thats why I like it, the more you know the easier it becomes. You HAVE to become impersonal with people. That means if the guy selling an item you want for 1ex doesnt respond in 10 seconds, you just whisper the next. You are going to have an awful time being a courteous trader, so just dont. No one cares its a video game, if you whisper 5 people in 10 seconds for an item you can trade the first that responds and ghost the rest, who cares?

Completely get all this and it's already been addressed in this thread, the issue I'm talking about are those doing price fixing on a scale orders of magnitudes larger than what you're talking about.

An automated Auction House that just auto-sells anything you post to another player would fix all trade problems instantly. Just look at how useful Faustus was, now imagine how good it would feel to be able to pricecheck any item, any equipment, any unique and just click a button to insta-sell it for the recommended market price. It would be the best qol in the game's history.