0.10.8 Information and Race Updates

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pengant wrote:

You know the game is going downhill when content like that listed in the first post is given priority over desync and melee/ranged disparity.

Good choice GGG.....

I read things like this countless times. They are working on it, really. Its more difficult to fix that than other things like rebalancing skills, area levels, making new skills, etc. Also, its obvious that not the entire team is working on just one thing. Probably just a minor part of the team have the knowledge to face desync code problems. People should be more patient and try to understand the problem and the context behind it before just say "RAWGH FIX DEXINCH BASTARDS!!"

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Moosifer wrote:

Cannot wait for all the complaints about the new area levels. The same people who gave a +1 or quick "ya sounds good" are going to be the ones losing their minds on the forums because act 3 merci will be hell to get through. Just imagine while leveling you jumped into an easy mod lvl 66 maps middle of act 3 when you clearly aren't ready to handle mapping. You will be stuck grinding act 2, then city of sarn, then getting frustrated at docks, then in lunaris then once you have enough lvl 68 maps (as all that grinding will give you alot of 66s and you'll be close or over 80 so what's the point of starting at 66 maps, vendor them up and take RNG out of it) you'll finally reach the end game, where you can grind for gear to do lvl 77 maps (ofc you have to find them first).

It's grinding so you can grind. Not even being most effective either, just to allow yourself to progress. This is one of the reasons D3 was so frustrating, you farmed act 1 inferno to allow yourself to farm act 2 inferno, to allow yourself to farm act 3 inferno then you hoped to get gear 1% better to speed up your clear speed in the slightest. All of this knowing that 50m upgrade you just bought will only be significantly improved by a 2b gold upgrade.

I'm begging you, don't do it. I was so happy you did away with it in alpha, please don't bring it back.

I have supported the idea initial but I have changed my mind slightly since the day the change was posted on Manifesto forum. I still like the idea but the overall increase should peak at lvl66.

The main reason I support this change, and the one reason I believe should be recognized by most people, is the need to farm outside of maps at times. The amount of currency required to run even the lowest level tier is very high--first you consume alteration orbs, later you add alchemy and at the end you burn chaos and regal orbs.
If a player--solo players than those in organized groups--tries to move up map tiers, they will eventually have to go back to (a) lower tier maps or (b) static content. Option A is still requiring currency to be efficient, even if the amount is lower than when you climb up. Option B in the current game is nigh useless, gear drops are weak and most areas incur drop penalty on currency--the sole reason (to get currency) to farm outside of maps is diminished by the drop penalty. The proposed change will make option B a better and more meaningful.

Obviously, there will be players that will completely ignore maps, farm static content who will one day complain they run out of content/got bored. Their next next complain will be that starting maps is now very boring because they have to go back to lower content. These people are never happy. Everybody else will benefit from the change as long as it will be done with care and the level change will be properly balanced.

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ZomBenjamin wrote:

Looking forward to when the rebalanced split arrow

This! I like split arrow for its simplicity, maybe they can make it more competitive so it can compete with the others! I am already excited for puncture change

I love the idea. I really hope it comes through with what the manifesto stated.

it needs to go up to atleast level 68 piety.

thanks

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Moosifer wrote:

Cannot wait for all the complaints about the new area levels. The same people who gave a +1 or quick "ya sounds good" are going to be the ones losing their minds on the forums because act 3 merci will be hell to get through. Just imagine while leveling you jumped into an easy mod lvl 66 maps middle of act 3 when you clearly aren't ready to handle mapping. You will be stuck grinding act 2, then city of sarn, then getting frustrated at docks, then in lunaris then once you have enough lvl 68 maps (as all that grinding will give you alot of 66s and you'll be close or over 80 so what's the point of starting at 66 maps, vendor them up and take RNG out of it) you'll finally reach the end game, where you can grind for gear to do lvl 77 maps (ofc you have to find them first).

It's grinding so you can grind. Not even being most effective either, just to allow yourself to progress. This is one of the reasons D3 was so frustrating, you farmed act 1 inferno to allow yourself to farm act 2 inferno, to allow yourself to farm act 3 inferno then you hoped to get gear 1% better to speed up your clear speed in the slightest. All of this knowing that 50m upgrade you just bought will only be significantly improved by a 2b gold upgrade.

I'm begging you, don't do it. I was so happy you did away with it in alpha, please don't bring it back.

I think the change to catacombs is the best but I kind of agree with some points, new players are going to have a hell of a time now getting through act 3 merciless.

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I am very pleased with how the Merciless/Map changes in 0.10.8 have worked out. People keep suggesting we're caving to the masses, but these changes are motivated by our internal testing and design philosophies that we have been following since we started the project.

A large part of any decision we make is asking ourselves what we would want as players. We're in a unique position where we can make the decisions that are best for the game without being held back by some parent company or oppressive publisher. I am very confident that these changes will result in a big improvement in the areas that we felt were problematic. If they don't, we can undo them very easily. Even if it wasn't a beta test, I'd be happy to undo any change that didn't work out.

It it ends up in grinding 12h+ for one map in merciless you can undo the changes on the spot. I want CB map drop rates. I don't want some kind of. "We make it that way that getting level 66 maps takes as long as getting level 66 maps in CB"
If you think that's ok you can start maps at level 60 again. That would at last give some variance other than the 3 common act3 farmspots.


I hope this doesn't end up in monsters having that much HP that it slows down combat even more.(Hey I am level 60 and I am in lunaris level 3 aka level 68 because finishing areas once doesn't yield experience.....)

I don't want to grind certain spots for hours just to relevel myself. If I enter a level 59 area I want to be 59 not 53. Especially cruel act1 is terrible in terms of experience. It starts with level 33 instead of 34-35 and even you play normally you get only 1-2 levels at best.

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Having Merciless Act Three pitched at higher levels does make it harder to progress through it in one sitting. You do have to repeat areas. It is an intentional part of the design that there comes a point (in the higher difficulties) where the game is too hard for your character and you have to improve it by gaining new items before you can progress. I completely agree that there's substantial work that can be done to make earlier areas feel a little less grindy.

This is the problem. You waste time grinding. I'd rather fight a boss 1 hour than grind 3h get 2 levels and get nothing in return. I miss something like the ancients in 1.09 you got a certain amount of experience. If you were level 20 you got to level 25. (40-45 in nm and 60->65 in hell)
By the time hit act2 merciless most of my items are still from normal maybe some cruel drop.
The game is nowhere to be hard.My feelings about this changes are that it will end up in even more terrible grinding. I don't want to play 50h you get a single character on level 70 just because the mechanics are so unrewarding.
You got maps till level 77 then make it easier for players to reach level 77 and after that you can start this exping hell. In D2 even after the terrible 1.10 I got characters to level 80-83 on a normal playthrough and even without massive time investment level 87 was possible which was the monster level of rares and highest unique requirement. After that you could do whatever you want. I want that back you have a reasonable level in a short amount of time where you can do anything.


But PoE is a MMO in that case. Slowing down far too early instead of making it possible to try out many different builds in short amount of times you force players to play 40h or more(if unexperienced) to create a character with a normal playthrough.
You expect normal players to play 2 years to reach level 100?
Imo temporary ending point should be end of a3 without much trouble rerunning maps and after that you can add a slower progression till like level 82 after that you can have your grinding hell it is now but at last have player an amount of characters without playing hundreds of hours.

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Another thing to note is that these area levels are mostly just a standin for Act 3X. Once we introduce new areas like the Gardens and the Sceptre of God,

How about a second option to get to barracks with the Bridge as optional area? A possible evil exile path simple to the bandit quest. Instead of killing Piety you ally wth her?

You made act3 that big and added a colloseum how about arena fights vs random packs.
Similar to PVP. Instead of fighting players you fights big mob packs and record the time similar to blade & sword(chinese d2 clone) and on the final stages you fight 4 brutus 1 vaal 1 piety at the same time for example.

Act3 sill got so much potential. Also there are still many names on the map in A2 and A1 that aren't used.

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Maps are still necessary for top-tier items and the best shot at 90+ experience gain. We are not afraid of adding other things for players to do in their 70s and 80s, and will continue to add more interesting goals over time. These are just a set of easy ones that we know we can fit into the 0.10.8 patch and have done very well in our testing so far.

If I had kept playing where my motivation kicked the bucked I would prolly be level 86 by now by doing docks......

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I'd be happy to undo any change that didn't work out.

I copy paste Xens PoE status: "WTB CB"
and my addition is and set it to Turbo.
That's what a hard game PoE looks like.
You can 2 shot white level 64 mobs but make a mistake and you are at 50% make a big mistake and you see the ressurect button.

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RaGoNXIII wrote:

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pengant wrote:

You know the game is going downhill when content like that listed in the first post is given priority over desync and melee/ranged disparity.

Good choice GGG.....

I read things like this countless times. They are working on it, really. Its more difficult to fix that than other things like rebalancing skills, area levels, making new skills, etc. Also, its obvious that not the entire team is working on just one thing. Probably just a minor part of the team have the knowledge to face desync code problems. People should be more patient and try to understand the problem and the context behind it before just say "RAWGH FIX DEXINCH BASTARDS!!"

Patient to fix something thats been around since closed beta? Theres a huge difference between "working on it" and "just not doing anything about it" and its starting to look like nothings being done about it.

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metisuneatn wrote:

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RaGoNXIII wrote:

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pengant wrote:

You know the game is going downhill when content like that listed in the first post is given priority over desync and melee/ranged disparity.

Good choice GGG.....

I read things like this countless times. They are working on it, really. Its more difficult to fix that than other things like rebalancing skills, area levels, making new skills, etc. Also, its obvious that not the entire team is working on just one thing. Probably just a minor part of the team have the knowledge to face desync code problems. People should be more patient and try to understand the problem and the context behind it before just say "RAWGH FIX DEXINCH BASTARDS!!"

Patient to fix something thats been around since closed beta? Theres a huge difference between "working on it" and "just not doing anything about it" and its starting to look like nothings being done about it.

+1 :)

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Chris wrote:

Maps are still necessary for top-tier items and the best shot at 90+ experience gain. We are not afraid of adding other things for players to do in their 70s and 80s, and will continue to add more interesting goals over time. These are just a set of easy ones that we know we can fit into the 0.10.8 patch and have done very well in our testing so far.

I'm still of the opinion that some items should stay map-exclusive (all of the final tier items and their unique counterparts). There is an element of risk-reward associated with getting these items as well as investment. Allowing these to drop outside the realm of maps removes much of the risk element and just leaves reward.

With these changes, I would just run Lunaris 3 for Glorious Plates where nothing can kill me and I would know that each and every monster can drop it. In contrast, I would otherwise have to invest currency and time into my maps as well as risk more dangerous content. That is bad design in my eyes. Good things should come with effort. Lots of it.

I will however reserve judgement on the rest of the changes. There's a lot of work in store for me as I have to update the map resource to reflect changes..

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Hilbert wrote:

But PoE is a MMO in that case.

Lots of valid bricks in this wall.

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Hilbert wrote:

Instead of fighting players you fights big mob packs and record the time similar to blade & sword(chinese d2 clone)

Heh, I thought I was the only one who played that :)

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Hilbert wrote:

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I'd be happy to undo any change that didn't work out.

I copy paste Xens PoE status: "WTB CB"
and my addition is and set it to Turbo.
That's what a hard game PoE looks like.
You can 2 shot white level 64 mobs but make a mistake and you are at 50% make a big mistake and you see the ressurect button.

Many changes didn't work out, it just takes reading the forum to see. I second on chaos resist in particular, annoying and makes no sense. If you treat it as an element, make it an element dammit.