RANGER PASSIVE TREE SUCKS

Now that I have your attention, I'd firstly like to apologize about the title.

Regardless, I am hoping somebody here can point me out why I am mistaken. Unlike the other tree's, I feels as though the ranger has nothing going for it. It feels lackluster or unoptimized ever since the duelist tree was changed:

Not only are the evasion nodes at the start weak, an an absolute pain to grab, but the dex node they lead to have a minimal dps boost with AS which then only lead to miserable life points (just 8%, not even +base)

Basically, for 7 points, you get:
48 evasion (?)
30 dex
4 attack speed
16% life

Noting that 90% of evasion users will grab iron reflexes, this becomes laughable when compared to armour nodes at the marauder, near the duelist, even the leather and steel nodes.

The two 8% nodes are, again, a pain to get when compared to the life boost at the marauder start, the duelist's 8+12+1%regen nodes, EVEN THE FREAKING SHADOW HAS BETTER LIFE NODES (8+12+20base)

The attack speed is miserable, the shadow outdoes the ranger with the acceleration node nearby, which is also true for the duelist; AND THIS IS EXCLUDING SPECIALIZED SPEED NODES.

From the evasion nodes, you could consider moving upwards to dual-wield specc, but what seems like an option, is actually completely rejectable when you're faced with the lowball 6% physical nodes.

The other side of the tree includes a nice attack speed node at the start, followed by an accuracy node that splits into yet another cluster of shitty lowball 6% phys nodes for one-handers that lead to crit and block chance nodes (?)

The second branch pathes out to what one would think is finally a decent choice, projectile damage.

Unfortunately, when comparing, you realize that this one decent branch is not so good after all.

For 5 points, you are awarded:
8% attack speed
12% accuracy (?)
31 projectile damage
20 dexterity

This is comparable to the duelist's starting 5 points:
10% attack speed
24% projectile damage

And although it may initially seems as though the ranger's path is considerable, it turns out to be absolute shit when you see where both path's have positioned you in regards to the rest of the tree.

Not only does the duelist have a free 12% attack speed node grab right after, but it lets you branch out with good armour and evasion nodes (echoing again the iron reflex argument) OR some great bow specc nodes.

The Ranger, on the other hand, leads you to AN ABSOLUTE CLUSTERFUCK of bow physical/attack speed nodes that are easily ignorable, or a ridiculously long path of grabbing unnecessary dex nodes to reach anything remotely nearby. To make things worse, the only life nodes EVEN REMOTELY NEARBY are YET AGAIN only shitty 8% life nodes!

This, I believe is absolutely the main reason why the Ranger's start is pointless, it drives you to waste way too many points in plenty of different clusters that have no cohesion between them whatsoever, or to WASTE some good 10 passive points in dexterity nodes just to get out of the way.

So what gives? What is the purpose behind rolling a ranger? Why would anyone do this, and Please-Oh-Please! Do tell me what I'm missing.

Oh, and I forgot to add:

If what you want is critical strikes, just why on earth would you not roll a shadow?

Yes. And it sucks that rangers are so shafted. I don't even play anymore, just check the forums from time to time waiting too see a buff.

Fyi, we all have the same passive tree :)

But srsly, rangers start off with some pretty decent nodes.

Perfect Aim is pretty sweet - and just south east of that, heart seeker cluster, 30 crit chance and multiplier for 3 points is pretty awesome - along with hitting the 4% evasion rating per frenzy charge, combined with iron reflexes is pretty good...

There's 2-3 ranger on the top-10 HC ladder, so they can't suck that much ;)

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Edzilla wrote:

Fyi, we all have the same passive tree :)

But srsly, rangers start off with some pretty decent nodes.

Perfect Aim is pretty sweet - and just south east of that, heart seeker cluster, 30 crit chance and multiplier for 3 points is pretty awesome - along with hitting the 4% evasion rating per frenzy charge, combined with iron reflexes is pretty good...

There's 2-3 ranger on the top-10 HC ladder, so they can't suck that much ;)

Hi, thanks for your response.

However, let me point out to you why I believe you're wrong:
Perfect Aim Duelist has fury bolts, and a way more tidy tree

Evasion per charge It's nice, yes. However, it's just silly how easy it is to get to it from a duelist / shadow branch, so this again isn't convincing me to roll a ranger.

Heart Seeker Shadow has way more crit nearby, projectile path, and again - is more tidy
(and ridiculously even has better life nodes)

Iron Reflexes Marauders. Shadows. Duelists. Templars. I've seen all of these get to Iron Reflexes without any trouble. Being a keystone that far out means it's not prone to Rangers - which again doesn't sell me the class.

Ladder Rangers Yes, this is true. However, they're that far up because they STARTED as rangers before the Duelist buff. Duelists were unplayable, but I'm pretty sure those rangers on top of the ladder have since then said starting as a Duelist would have greatly improved their builds

And don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the class or anything - the case is I REALLY WANTED TO ROLL A RANGER. I just don't see a single reason why I should; It's a nice character model and all, but I don't find it making hampering myself justified.

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lucksickle wrote:

Hi, thanks for your response.

However, let me point out to you why I believe you're wrong:
Perfect Aim Duelist has fury bolts, and a way more tidy tree

Point for point, perfect aim is better. Even tho duelist tree is more 'tidy' you get more actual ranged boosted passive, from the ranger tree. Thus, making it easier to level with a bow, rather then a club and melee gems.

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lucksickle wrote:

Evasion per charge It's nice, yes. However, it's just silly how easy it is to get to it from a duelist / shadow branch, so this again isn't convincing me to roll a ranger.

The most effective way to go up, is to hit the far side, so I usually pass through it, when making ranger builds. Also, sometimes, it is easier going bottom from that entry point to the side as well - it's just personal preference. But ranger does have the easiest route to it, and gets it the earliest which might actually make it better considering you want more survivability early on, eh?

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lucksickle wrote:

Heart Seeker Shadow has way more crit nearby, projectile path, and again - is more tidy
(and ridiculously even has better life nodes)

True, this is true but 3 points for a straight 30 multiplier/chance split is not bad, considering its a bow affect whereas some shadow stuff is just spell. This again, makes it easier to start with a bow and stick to it.

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lucksickle wrote:

Iron Reflexes Marauders. Shadows. Duelists. Templars. I've seen all of these get to Iron Reflexes without any trouble. Being a keystone that far out means it's not prone to Rangers - which again doesn't sell me the class.

Never stated ranger had it easeist or anything, just that it works well with Frenzy evasion node - this point is moot since everyone gets Iron Reflexes that isn't witch (even so, some witches do too O.o) But, saying that duelist/marauder/shadow can get to it just as easy as ranger just makes ranger equal to them in that sense, no? :)

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lucksickle wrote:

Ladder Rangers Yes, this is true. However, they're that far up because they STARTED as rangers before the Duelist buff. Duelists were unplayable, but I'm pretty sure those rangers on top of the ladder have since then said starting as a Duelist would have greatly improved their builds

I wouldn't call the duelist buff a real buff. Only real viable way to use the 'duelist buff' effectively, is to roll a melee character. Is that your goal? Then yes, duelist is a better choice. If you want to use a bow or spells, you're just backtracking or spending points solely on those hp nodes and not making a path out of it - not worth it IMHO.

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lucksickle wrote:

And don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the class or anything - the case is I REALLY WANTED TO ROLL A RANGER. I just don't see a single reason why I should; It's a nice character model and all, but I don't find it making hampering myself justified.

Bottom line is, ranger has the easiest time using a bow @ level 1. Is this revelant? Well, yea, sure is! Bow users are some of the last people to die on PoE. This makes rangers really powerful for HC, staying out of the fray. And since they have an innate evasion additive in passives, they can convert that into armor VIA IR, and be semi-tanky too with some HP nodes. Sure, they aren't as good starting chars as Templars or marauders in the tanky department - but, they are much more forgiving to the newer players that are still learning things or to people to want to rush with Poison arrow, fire traps and Silverbranch instead of being forced to use ground slam / ele cleave and possibly dying to desync or inexperience. :)

The Ranger can use both starting points, while a Marauder for example wouldn't be able to grab Perfect Aim in a Cookiecutter LA/RoA Build. This, besides Leveling, has basically been the reasoning why people would pick a Ranger over a Marauder. Now the Duelist buff, or whatever you want to call it, made the Starting nodes themselves much better but didn't change that it takes quite a lot of points to get out of the Starting area (for a cookiecutter LA/RoA Build). The points it takes for the Ranger to get to IR are some weak 10% Evasion nodes, Finesse, Life, and then +10 Dex nodes which all also connect to more life or a weapon elemental, which seems that much more efficient than a Duelist to me.

I think for a full elemental bow build a Ranger is better. For Physical Conversion and elemental it depends on preference.

its been a wide known fact that the ranger start is by far the worse starting one in the game.

SPECIALLY if you are going Lightin arrow or elemental damage build because if you are, not only you are basically FORCED to get 4x evasion nodes right off the bat (fucking garbage waste shit scrub design remake qq wtf...) but you also should only be picking up thr first 8% attack speed node on the top start. and you should not be going to perfect aim etc.

And if you were to go crit build, might as well start a shadow as mentioned, way more efficient


now the duelist tree USED to be the worse one even worse than the ranger, but after the revamp patch, IT IS NOW THE BEST ONE. it went from worse to best, in terms of starting dps nodes, if you want starting HP nodes, then the marauder is the best.



but yea... fucking garbage. i totally regret starting a ranger.... id for sure start a new character except im like almost level 95..... so thats clearly not a reasonable option for me or anyone else who put alot of effort and time into their ranger.....


also another big design flaw IMO given the amount of time and effort you put into a character, is the rewards from the bandit quest....

as they add new items and gems etc it makes it clearly unfair that for example one extra frenzy charge is completely game changing and a huge improvement, but those who did not choose that are basically shit out of luck and gimped for good.

for example, lots of builds would have chosen +1 POWER CHARGE reward if they knew later on a gem that gives power charge on crit was added.... and now they are screwed out of it because they already chose something else while this featured gem was NOT IN THE GAME YET.


its only fair that the developers give people Class change and a way to simply redo their bandit quest.

it makes much more sense than having to start the same exact character / build from scratch just because huge improvement from those things is impossible to get nowdays...

Cool, thanks for all the responses guys.

So yeah, I wouldn't say I fully agree with Edzilla, however, he does make some solid points.
1) Yes, in terms of early-mid game (speed of getting to, call it, "essential" nodes) Ranger might be better suited.
2) No, after getting by mid game, being a Ranger just backtracks you a bunch. I'd argue that Fury Bolts > Perfect aim, not only due to branching off in the opposite direction, but because the STR is far more relevant then the DEX due to iron grip. As far as saying a Ranger is best suited for Ele builds, I'd go with a big no.
- Templars get a truckload of ele and wep ele nodes early on.
- Marauders get far better HP
- Duelist hav RIDICULOUSLY more attack speed.

The only thing a ranger is trumping them on really is actually being able to use a bow in early levels (even then, you can just put on a +25 dex amu and run off)

3) No matter what you say, you simply can not deny that 99% life nodes in the Ranger area are absolute crap. They're wheel's of 2, 3, or even 5 nodes that each give 8% life. Nothing else. Just 8% life, no upgrade to 12%, no +base health, life regen. NOTHING
The remaining 1% is the arguable fitness node in the outsides of the ranger tree (once again encouraging you to run past by the ranger zone, tip-toeing in the outskirts as far away as possible from the clusterfuck it is)

And yes, BuDiu, the Rerolling factor in this game is very annoying. Bandit Quests, remakes, new gems/uniques and whatnot. I agree... but geh, all we can do is cross our fingers and hope that the "it's only beta" argument means something will be done about it before official release.

tl;dr So then, I guess it's safe to say that, other than arguable early game comodity, Ranger is just complete shite.

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BuDiu wrote:

now the duelist tree USED to be the worse one even worse than the ranger, but after the revamp patch, IT IS NOW THE BEST ONE. it went from worse to best, in terms of starting dps nodes, if you want starting HP nodes, then the marauder is the best.



but yea... fucking garbage. i totally regret starting a ranger.... id for sure start a new character except im like almost level 95..... so thats clearly not a reasonable option for me or anyone else who put alot of effort and time into their ranger.....

I still don't see how people are praising the duelist tree so much - you give them 2 hp nodes and some life regen and it makes them "zomgz, b3stz cl4ss 3v3r!!!!!112231!" erhmmm... I still only see them good if you're going melee (which, in that case templar/marauder beats them out anyway...) Other wise, you'd go towards Fury bolts starting path and just get to the nearest hp cluster in the direction that you're headed - so, just the same as before the "buff."