[0.3] (Cold) Chronomancer Megathread. WIP.

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Kabanaken#0870 wrote:

Correct me, but I see the Stormweaver being reworked, and the Chronomancer seems to remain some kind of inferior class, without its own specialty and personal synergy, despite the fact that it was one of the most unpopular classes in the game.

does seem strange. chrono was not very played.

The CD line was "nerfed" incidentally it seems. with a massive nerf to frost bomb.
a nerf to frostwall, its primary use.

no buffs to other CD skills or supports. no addition of traps, or cd skills.
There are new passives being added.. so maybe some of those will help?

unleash was a cool and fun thing they gave us. and took it away. replaced with seemingly a terrible curse. maybe we need to see the numbers, but this really seems like the answer to a question no one asked.

recoup sucks and was not fixed.

I do think sands of time is a major improvement. but, its not really thematic, or really THAT great. also just a patch for the nerf's to aoe.

-new lineage support-"zarokh's refrain" drops from time boy.

5s cooldown.
"supports spells that affect an area around you or target location. Supported spells echo twice, but supported skills are given a short cooldown. cannot support triggered remote, channeling or skills that already have a CD."

They think 5seconds is a short cooldown...

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Kabanaken#0870 wrote:

Correct me, but I see the Stormweaver being reworked, and the Chronomancer seems to remain some kind of inferior class, without its own specialty and personal synergy, despite the fact that it was one of the most unpopular classes in the game.

Chronomancer looks dead.

I would build a Stormweaver with Arc with Living Bomb (Makes Fire Infusion) with Cometx4-5 (Which uses any Fire Infusion) socketed into Cast on Critx2. Living Bomb would create Fire Infusion, Comet would Freeze, and Arc should shock, giving me all three element types to "Snap", if they all trigger at once.

I would pick up mana Tempest, particularly if I went Lightning Archon, to trigger it and empower Arc. Lightning Infusions could be spent here. I wonder how Comet will work. Do Infusions trigger first, and then Archon-types convert all the damage to Lightning? I would want to make sure the Fire Infusions being created by Living Bomb are being utilized to scale comet, and Comet itself is scaling with Lightning Archon.

(Point retracted on edit, incorrect. Minions use ICE armor, not arctic. Arctic Armor does not provide DR; But it should).

Basically I would one-button spam Arc (or Spark) with 100% crit and use all the Fire infusions to nuke stuff with multiple comets.

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monik390#5560 wrote:

Oh, yeah, missed it.

Actually, getting full lightning conversion with archmage sounds like a decent option. We can easily remove our mana pool in 0.2 seconds anyway, and scaling lightning is quite easy and pretty efficient.

The problem with other elements is not having their archmage alternatives. And non-cold spells have a mediocre base critical chance. Also, we get less critical chance with wands now.

Elemental conversion doesn't work with AM, if I remember right (got a bit rusty). Extra damage from it applies after the conversion. My only wish in 0.1 was an Archmage alternative for respective elements. Not just some BS like that support gem.

Anyway, let's see the passive tree first.

Right now, the more I speculate, the less pleasant it becomes for a pure "Cold" build. Need more info.

Glad to see you again. Hope you've been doing well.

Doing fine, hope you do as well!

Saw that wand change, it will be noticeable to lose ~30% cc which is equal to one notable, but 70% is still decent.

With new Comet and fire infusion that give AoE we might not need new Cast on Ailment that cost 100 Spirit, so Archmage is good replacement. Or that new siphon element if not going for those passives that convert all damage.

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Venaliter#7965 wrote:

Archmage with 2100 mana is effectively 84% more damage as Lightning.

Practically, no. Extra % is not equal to More % bc of several factors.

There was a post here about archmage worth in 0.2.
It's value on 1.5-2k mana was about 15-20% more damage for the entire build.

I remember that bc i did a comparison between offhand weapons, where foci w/o archmage were a direct competitor to sceptre with archmage.
Even Effigy focus was good enough to use early.

Also, i just checked a couple of PoBs to confirm that.

It would be great if you could share a PoB where AM offers 84% more damage in 0.2, so i can be sure of that.

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Casia#1093 wrote:

huge buff? but directly countered by the nerf to curses on magic+ so, same versus bosses I think.

After a second thought, seems so. Right now there is already 50% reduction on bosses. If they make it 75%, than it is a slight nerf still.

New skill is the curse with the portion of the damage.
Imagine it being gutted by 75%. Pfff.

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Kabanaken#0870 wrote:

Correct me, but I see the Stormweaver being reworked, and the Chronomancer seems to remain some kind of inferior class, without its own specialty and personal synergy, despite the fact that it was one of the most unpopular classes in the game.

It always was.

Cold Chrono worked well, but it took about a month to figure things out in 0.1. In comparison, Stormweaver was super straightforward to begin with and scale to the moon.

Tho, i have to say, on a lower budget, Cold Chrono became just a better build overall.

Now GGG changed Sorceress and made Stormweaver going well according to this change. Chrono got nothing.

Same Slow, same Time Freeze, just different skills to use.

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VenaliterFA#4664 wrote:

Chronomancer looks dead.

I can't really argue with this, if we are talking about comparison between Chrono and SW. I probably would be interested in building the latter way more in 0.3.

I think GGG just don't know what to do with a Chrono. So they throw some BS at us. "Look, we are doing smth, right?" (c)

~~~~~

Anyway, plans'd changed. There is a Hollow Knight: Silksong release at Semtember 4.

Unfortunately, it'd take some time to finish that game, so yeah. I'm not hooked enough by current changes to choose PoE2 over HK.

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monik390#5560 wrote:

Practically, no. Extra % is not equal to More % bc of several factors.

There was a post here about archmage worth in 0.2.
It's value on 1.5-2k mana was about 15-20% more damage for the entire build.

I remember that bc i did a comparison between offhand weapons, where foci w/o archmage were a direct competitor to sceptre with archmage.
Even Effigy focus was good enough to use early.

Also, i just checked a couple of PoBs to confirm that.

It would be great if you could share a PoB where AM offers 84% more damage in 0.2, so i can be sure of that.
.

The best information I have, and I have seen it multiple places, is that it's multiplicative or (more) damage. This is per google's AI, because I can't find where I've found it again. If it's wrong, I shall edit the wrong information out.

In PoE 2, "extra damage as [element]" provides a damage bonus that applies after all other damage increases and conversion, acting as a separate, multiplicative "more" damage multiplier to your damage before resistance. For example, if you deal 100 physical damage and have 30% extra lightning damage, and also have 300% increased physical damage, the order of calculation would be (100 * 4) * 1.30 = 520 total damage.
Here's a breakdown of how it works:
1. Base Damage:
Your skill first deals its base damage.
2. Increased Damage:
All "increased" modifiers you have (from the passive tree, gear, etc.) are added together and then multiplied with your base damage.
3. Conversion (if applicable):
If your skill has damage conversion, a portion of the damage is converted to a new damage type.
4. Extra Damage as [Element]:
This modifier applies to the damage after the "increased" modifiers. This means it's a "more" multiplier.
5. Multiplicative Calculation:
The final damage calculation is multiplicative, meaning the bonus from "extra damage as [element]" is applied to the total damage you've already built.
Key Points:
Not an "Increased" Modifier:
Unlike modifiers like "Increased Fire Damage," extra damage is a multiplicative bonus that stacks on top of your damage after other modifiers are applied.
Benefit of High "Increased" Damage:
To make "extra damage as [element]" more powerful, you generally want to have a large amount of "increased" damage on your character first, according to Reddit users.

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VenaliterFA#4664 wrote:

If it's wrong, I shall edit the wrong information out.

You don't need to waste your time doing that.

https://maxroll.gg/poe2/getting-started/damage-scaling

Gained Damage: "Gain #% of Damage as X Damage" modifiers grant a percentage of your base damage as extra damage. Gained damage is additive with other sources of Gained Damage but multiplicative with the rest of your damage scaling. Keep in mind as it adds Base Damage (meaning before any damage multipliers) only modifiers of the new damage type apply to it.

To check things quickly about the impact of Archmage on Cold Chrono, there is a trick:



That % is practically correct, and can be confirmed in PoB2 (a small deviation is possible tho, but nothing gamechanging).

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PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

Doing fine, hope you do as well!

Saw that wand change, it will be noticeable to lose ~30% cc which is equal to one notable, but 70% is still decent.

With new Comet and fire infusion that give AoE we might not need new Cast on Ailment that cost 100 Spirit, so Archmage is good replacement. Or that new siphon element if not going for those passives that convert all damage.

Honestly, the more I think about stuff, the more I want to go after the lightning conversion build. Just like that good old CoC+Archmage mana scaling build.

There are plenty of things to check.

Atm, speculations w/o detailed info are my enemy.

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Casia#1093 wrote:

They think 5seconds is a short cooldown...

Exactly. Honestly, I think that Now and Again should offer 33% CDR now, instead of 33% chance to not consume CD.

And still, CD stuff doesn't work well in the endgame at all, unless it is reduced a lot. Simulacrum clearly showed how flawed CD skills are.

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monik390#5560 wrote:

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PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

Doing fine, hope you do as well!

Saw that wand change, it will be noticeable to lose ~30% cc which is equal to one notable, but 70% is still decent.

With new Comet and fire infusion that give AoE we might not need new Cast on Ailment that cost 100 Spirit, so Archmage is good replacement. Or that new siphon element if not going for those passives that convert all damage.

Honestly, the more I think about stuff, the more I want to go after the lightning conversion build. Just like that good old CoC+Archmage mana scaling build.

There are plenty of things to check.

Atm, speculations w/o detailed info are my enemy.

I would think Lightning Archon is the obvious way to go, but I think Cast on Critx2 will remain superior over using "Cast on Ailment" or 1x Cast on Crit and Archmage.

I can't think of an argument that cast on ailment would be superior to cast on crit, unless you were running some kind of DOT build that can't crit.

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monik390#5560 wrote:

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Casia#1093 wrote:

They think 5seconds is a short cooldown...

Exactly. Honestly, I think that Now and Again should offer 33% CDR now, instead of 33% chance to not consume CD.

And still, CD stuff doesn't work well in the endgame at all, unless it is reduced a lot. Simulacrum clearly showed how flawed CD skills are.

it can work. it just needs some retooling and rethinking of CDs.

like, CD's with charges it works great. see frostwall, grenades, etc.
or, short cd's. worked pretty good with that 2-3s cd on bomb, or blink.

And this is all especially true when its not tied to survival.

you got a support like Mana flare. A 1s cd. this Support would be AMAZING with "now and again", if it didn't burn 25% of your mana in a game where we are all mana starved in the first place..

Mines and traps are still missing. if they work like in poe1, and thus like frostwall/grenades, then that should open up an entire new line for chrono.

all the +cooldown supports of course. hourglass, "+30% more damage, +10s cooldown." just insanity. if that was "+90% more damage, and +2s cd", we would be having an entirely different conversation.

so, "now and again", and "time snap" aren't the problem, its GGG doesn't seem to know what a viable CD in this game is.
or every CD skill is hamstrung in some stupid way.

--
we can support everything with Ingenuity now... instead of just pick one...

still, theres also lots of passive tree changes. and support changes. its possible some of these might give us solutions.

more passive clusters is a ??? as if we weren't already passive point starved. more clusters doesn't really solve anything.
nobody was spending passive points on attributes. lowering stat req's won't solve this.



the new chrono curse. I realize that I am pretty sure its effect is one of my suggestions on how to buff/fix time freeze... either they didnt understand the suggestion, or purposely did it wrong..

"we need an out of combat sprint. how about passive 50% more movement speed, when no enemies are in your presance"
ggg- we got you fame. holding down dodge makes you sprint. also, if you get touched while sprinting, you get stunned for 8 seconds. good luck.