May I ask you some questions about "spell"

"

tukohamatata wrote:

Therefore, he suffered from online violence



I say RF is a spell and Herald of Thunder is a spell.And I posted Mark's reply.

Then he block me and delete my reply.

This is "suffered from online violence".

Great.

Everyone said RF was a spell, but he said RF was not a spell.

He always put other people right, but with never admit making an error himself.

That's ridiculous.

Why are you talking about cyberbullying?Want to use cyberbullying to get sympathy?

I don't care.All I know is that RF is a spell.

Great firewall and machine translation......



RF is a spell that do not deal spell damage. It only deal DOT....

There are a lot of spells that are not affected by spell damage because there is not a hit component. RF, for example, only deals DoT as neohongkong said. Auras and Summons likewise do not hit. A summoned minion may hit and buffed by applicable support gems to the specific minion, but "increased spell damage" from any other source does not.

HoT is a spell, but the gem specifically states: "The damage inflicted by this skill is not affected by modifiers to spell damage."

Generally speaking a wording GGG uses is extremely specific and takes a fair bit of experience understanding what is affected. The main exception that I can think of is when GGG uses "nearby."

There is a chance your friend was referring to Warcry skills. They used to be spells but no longer contain the spell gem tag instead having the warcry tag. All active skill gems that contains a spell gem tag is a spell, and ones that don't are not a spell. Support gems may contain the spell tag but are not spells. They affect spells.

Spells have a default critical strike chance written on the gem. If a spell has 5% critical strike chance, then it will crit 5% of the time. "Increased critical strike chance" is multiplicative with the base crit. If you have 100% increased critical strike chance, then you will crit 10% of the time. You can also get "to critical strike chance" modifiers which is additive to the base crit. If you have 6% written on the gem and 1% to critical strike chance, then your spells will crit 7% of the time, and 100% increased would bring this up to 14%. Critical strikes have a default increase of 50% more damage, and "increased to critical strike multiplier" will be additive to the 50%. If you have 100% increased multiplier, then each crit will do 150% more damage.

Righteous fire provides a buff to spell damage, but the burning damage itself is not effected by increases to spell damage (at least not last time I was playing it).

For example, on my current penance brand(a spell) character, if I turn on lvl 20 righteouse fire, the brands get the 39% more multiplier. However if I add spell damage modifiers to my build, they will only increase PB damage, not the righteous fire burning. RF damage is fire DOT, it needs to be increased by other sources like elemental damage, DOT multi, increasing life/ES pool etc. In general, damage over time is not effect by spell damage modifiers. There are exceptions, it is usually stated on the gem. An example of this is Exsanguinate, contains text, "modifiers to spell damage apply to this skill's damage over time".

Spell damage is a different damage source than damage over time.

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Damage

"

Damage source
All sources of damage are encompassed by one of four categories:[1]

Attack damage
Spell damage
Secondary damage
Damage over time

A single hit or instance of damage can only be one of these four categories at a time and are mutually exclusive. Modifiers which apply specifically to one damage source never innately apply to any others, though some skill modifiers allow the numeric values of one damage source to be used in calculations for another (e.g. Vortex - note that in this example, the damage over time component is still not considered dealing spell damage, and will not be affected by modifiers to spell damage taken, such as Unnerve). Generic modifiers (e.g. Elemental Damage or simply just "Damage") can affect multiple damage sources.

It is confusing, because the gem itself is a spell and has the "spell" tag, but the damage source is Damage over time.

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Aldonés wrote:

[...]
Spells have a default critical strike chance written on the gem. If a spell has 5% critical strike chance, then it will crit 5% of the time. "Increased critical strike chance" is multiplicative with the base crit. If you have 100% increased critical strike chance, then you will crit 10% of the time. You can also get "to critical strike chance" modifiers which is additive to the base crit. If you have 6% written on the gem and 1% to critical strike chance, then your spells will crit 7% of the time, and 100% increased would bring this up to 14%. Critical strikes have a default increase of 50% more damage, and "increased to critical strike multiplier" will be additive to the 50%. If you have 100% increased multiplier, then each crit will do 150% more damage.

(Emphasis mine.)
Are you sure about that ?
As you say, PoE1's wording is very specific.
And "increased" in PoE1 means 'additive', not 'multiplicative', which would be written "more".

P.S.: Especially since you start with 0% critical hit chances, don't you ? So you would have to add some additive "increased" mods somehow, otherwise a multiplicative "more" mod wouldn't do anything...

The increases are additive, but once you add it all up, it gets multiplied by your base crit chance to see how often you will crit, that's what he's saying. So eg. if you have 400% increased critical strike chance, and your base crit chance is 5%, you will crit 25% (5*(1.00+4.00)) of the time.

"

P.S.: Especially since you start with 0% critical hit chances, don't you ?

Your base crit chance is usual determined by the crit of the weapon if you're using an attack skill, or listed on the spell if using a spell. This can be modified by many things, for example the scion ascendancy "Assassins" has "+.75 to critical strike chance". So if you're using a spell that has 5% crit chance, and this ascendancy, you will now have 5.75% crit chance. If you then anoint "Annihilation" node from the tree, it has 50% increased crit chance. So 5.75*(1.00+.50) = 8.625. It also gives you +15% to critical strike multiplier, adding to your default 50% multiplier, becomes 65%. So 8.625% of the time you will crit and do 165% damage. The other 91.375% of the time you don't crit and just do 100% damage.

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Critical_strike

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BlueTemplar85 wrote:

Are you sure about that ?
As you say, PoE1's wording is very specific.
And "increased" in PoE1 means 'additive', not 'multiplicative', which would be written "more".

P.S.: Especially since you start with 0% critical hit chances, don't you ? So you would have to add some additive "increased" mods somehow, otherwise a multiplicative "more" mod wouldn't do anything...

I can't really explain it better than Belegur85 and especially not better than the wiki. Yes, "increased is additive," but it is additive with all other sources of "increased." All sources of increased are then multiplicative to the base crit. For spells the base crit is listed on the spell itself. For attacks it is whatever your weapon's critical strike reads. Your best bet to fully understanding everything is to read the wiki.

This might also be helpful:

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Damage

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Damage calculation
The basic damage calculation is:

Damage = (Base_Damage + Added_Damage) * Increased_Damage * More_Damage * Hit_Rate * (Critical_Strike_Damage * Critical_Strike_Chance)

Base_Damage: The primary damage of the skill. This is either specified in the skill itself (and increases with the level of the skill gem), or is determined by the damage of your weapon (in the case of most Attacks).
Added_Damage: Additional flat damage applied, modified by the skill's damage effectiveness value.
Increased_Damage: Additional percentage damage applied. All applicable sources of increased damage stack additively (e.g. two +10% increased damage modifiers add together to make 20% increased damage: 100% + 10% + 10% = 120%).
More_Damage: Additional percentage damage applied. All unique sources of more damage are multiplicative with each other (e.g. two +10% more damage modifiers will multiply on top of each other: 110% * 110% = 121%).
Hit_Rate: The rate at which the damage is applied, typically based on attack speed or cast speed.
Critical_Strike_Damage: See Critical Strike Multiplier.
Critical_Strike_Chance: See Critical Strike Chance.
In general:, More Damage is usually more effective than Increased Damage, due to diminishing returns from stacking increased damage modifiers, and the multiplicative nature of More Damage modifiers.

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Belegur85 wrote:

(Critical_Strike_Damage * Critical_Strike_Chance)

Mathmatically this part is incorrect. It should be:

"

(Critical Strike Damage * Critical Strike Damage + 1 - Critical Strike Chance)

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Aldonés wrote:

"

Belegur85 wrote:

(Critical_Strike_Damage * Critical_Strike_Chance)

Mathmatically this part is incorrect. It should be:

"

(Critical Strike Damage * Critical Strike Damage + 1 - Critical Strike Chance)

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