Armour and Evasion mechanics should be improved.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Aethon10 wrote:

The way armour works is something that always boggles my mind and that is for a good reason.

It is very useful against small hits (as it should be) while being completely useless against big hits. It should be providing quite good defence against big hits if you have tons of armour. The design is flawed in my opinion.

It boggles my mind that there are still people propagating this nonsense. Armor is not useless against big hits. You just have to scale it depending on how much damage you want to tank with it. Just want have protection against porcs in t16 maps? 20k is plenty. Want to eat up uber shapers slam attack? Try using 200k and you are good. More if you want to be completely unaffected by the slam rather than just surviving it.

You have to match your armor value to the stuff you want to tank, do that and it works plenty against any kind of hit.

Or I could just use one item and convert phys taken as ele to avoid at least 37.5% (45% if 90 max res) of physical damage all together regardless of how big the hit is. Don't get effected by overwhelm phys or crushed or any other physical defence decreasing debuff either. Do you realize how useless armor is compared to this mech?

Armor will only be relevant if the remove a lot of incoming damage conversion, make only the largest source of it apply ,or a make a rare mob mod that says, damage can't be converted.

Basically what phys overwhelm does now anyway to armor players.

armour is relevant already it just has issues with availability per slot and general passive support on the tree because GGG are chronically afraid of passive investment being worthwhile for (some) defences when key uniques/items provide vastly more instantaneously.

the pb is indeed overwhelm. solution is to blow stuff up anyway before it gets to you.

from the wiki
To prevent one third of damage (33%), you need armour 2.5 times the damage (e.g. 250 armour for 100 damage)
To prevent half of damage (50%), you need armour 5 times the damage (e.g. 500 armour for 100 damage)
To prevent two thirds of damage (66%), you need armour 10 times the damage (e.g. 1000 armour for 100 damage)
To prevent three quarters of damage (75%), you need armour 15 times the damage (e.g. 1500 armour for 100 damage)
To prevent 90% of damage, you need armour 45 times the damage (e.g. 4500 armour for 100 damage)
Armour will never prevent more damage than its value divided by 5 (e.g. 1000 armour will never prevent more than 200 damage)

so with 3 endu charge 12% + 7% on your body armour + let s say watcher eye 7% with determ, you re at 26% pdr, you only need 64% to have max res. so 10 times the damage. a 5k hit would only need 50k armour. and since a shaper slam non uber is max 15k i doubt you ll encounter a lot in a t16 scenario.
you would still get sth like 44% witch would add up to 70% pdr and with a molten shell would work well.

flat pdr will do wonder for armour

btw looking at the wiki it seems a lot of that was lost. i see veiled pdr while focused. veil orb only now, 12 div gamble lol

You wouldn't use veiled PDR if you can just stack Endurance Charges and have permanent uptime. 10 EC on a non-Jugg is 40% PDR, with 8% from chest and 6% from Solaris (while bossing) or 8% from Lunaris (while mapping) you already prevent half the damage before accounting for armour.

The effect from the veiled mods isn't bad, but uptime is king!

You can further reduce the incoming physical damage with damage taken as via physical taken as and the leftover damage will be much easier to handle with a bit of armour

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Aethon10 wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Aethon10 wrote:

The way armour works is something that always boggles my mind and that is for a good reason.

It is very useful against small hits (as it should be) while being completely useless against big hits. It should be providing quite good defence against big hits if you have tons of armour. The design is flawed in my opinion.

It boggles my mind that there are still people propagating this nonsense. Armor is not useless against big hits. You just have to scale it depending on how much damage you want to tank with it. Just want have protection against porcs in t16 maps? 20k is plenty. Want to eat up uber shapers slam attack? Try using 200k and you are good. More if you want to be completely unaffected by the slam rather than just surviving it.

You have to match your armor value to the stuff you want to tank, do that and it works plenty against any kind of hit.

Or I could just use one item and convert phys taken as ele to avoid at least 37.5% (45% if 90 max res) of physical damage all together regardless of how big the hit is. Don't get effected by overwhelm phys or crushed or any other physical defence decreasing debuff either. Do you realize how useless armor is compared to this mech?

Sure, you can do that. And then what? ~40% reduction against phys hit's isn't going to help much against a bunch of porcs exploding in your face and it likely won't save you from slam attacks either depending on how big your HP pool is. 60% of a shaper slam is still 7k to the face. You can get another 2x% conversion from Helm + 1 Watcherseye mod and that's it on many builds. Overall you'll still end up taking ~50% from everything. Meanwhile with 60k armor you'd be taking roughly the same damage from a shaper slam aka 50% BUT you'd only take 10% from smaller hits, rather than 50%. And you could combine that with 4th vow and divine flesh to increase elemental and chaos mitigation further in one go. Overwhelm is certainly a thing but even with 30% overwhelm you still have more than 50% mitigation against most small hits and you obviously won't run 100% overwhelm expeditions on an armor build.

Let's not kid ourselves here, the only class that can fully utilize phys conversion to a point where it can serve as the sole physical defensive layer are shield wielding pathfinders due to taste of hate and Dawnbreaker. If you want to go that route on another class you'll either remain glassy or you have to start shitting out mirrors to buy 3x phys taken as element watchers eye and shit like that. Plus using LC is a big opportunity cost by itself since there is a whole bunch of other good defensive chest pieces that help with other things besides phys damage.

Is 100% phys taken as elemental with 90% all res superior in defensive power compared to most armor builds? Sure. But it's just about as expensive as a full blown armor stacker at which point there won't be much difference anymore.

Just glanced over wiki pages, in there found- mob mods 30% phys overwhelm, damage mods, 100% inc acc, 100% inc acc from aura then map mods 50% inc acc and 30% less armour. I wonder how evasion holds compared to armour and if there are more defense bypassers i have missed?

evasion holds quite ok - because you never use evasion alone AND you use it on chars that are rarely hit (aka ranged/standoff). i also like to add some form of mob hinderance (maim/hinder/chill/temp chains/vines etc - slow enemies are harmless enemies in this game)

to expand on it:

most common use of evasion is ES/EV hybrid with Ghost Dance. if evasion fails - you are covered by 3 hits to ES you can absorb. for most chars in that area of the tree - 3 hits is plenty enough.

the other use is AR/EV hybrid (aka Perseverance build) - if the EV fail/is negated you just take a hit or two to the chin

it also pairs well with block. not stacking block all the way, but just picking a shield with +chance to block roll. blocking 1/3rd of attacks AND evading the remainder is cool and in a pinch you can ~survive on just one map mods pending

as a bonus - EV is mostly useless in endgame fights (there are like 2 attacks that are non-telegraphed and dangerous enough to care) so you can turn off Grace and pick some other aura - Arctic Armour is a good pick, no need to recolour

pure EV character - Dreamfeather style with 100k+ EV is a thing of the past, i wonder if people try it at all given that Iron Reflexes exist and Armour stacking is just easier to scale