Mandatory uber content for challenges.

Challenges are not mandatory also has challenge in the name. I see no issue with having very very tough content as part of it. I'd much rather have them be challenging than grindy.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

These are not ACHIEVEMENTS, they are CHALLENGES. They should challenge your skills as a PoE player, not reward you for mindlessly playing the game.

I think completely opposite. Achievements > Challenges. I can Challenge you to drink a bottle of water, this will be a Challenge, but no way it will be an Achievement.

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triada13 wrote:

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jsuslak313 wrote:

These are not ACHIEVEMENTS, they are CHALLENGES. They should challenge your skills as a PoE player, not reward you for mindlessly playing the game.

I think completely opposite. Achievements > Challenges. I can Challenge you to drink a bottle of water, this will be a Challenge, but no way it will be an Achievement.

Dude.....think about what you just said. Just think about it for a bit...
Sure...you can "challenge" me to drink a bottle of water. But that makes YOU look dumb, not me lol. Thank you for illustrating EXACTLY the point I was making. Easy (or non) "challenges" are ridiculous

Achievements are benchmarks you are SUPPOSED to reach. It is an ACHIEVEMENT to kill your millionth monster. It is an ACHIEVEMENT to reach 10k hours of gameplay. Losing your first baby tooth is an ACHIEVEMENT.

Challenges are things you are SUPPOSED to fail. Challenging me to drink a bottle of water implies that YOU would not be able to complete the same task. Or at least SOMEONE would fail that task...pulling out your first baby tooth by tying a string around it and slamming a door is a CHALLENGE.

It is the literal definition of the words. Anything can be an achievement. Not anything can be a challenge. It immediately STOPS being a challenge when.....it isn't challenging. Challenges ALWAYS have winners and losers. And in a game, there should be way more losers than winners.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Achievements are benchmarks you are SUPPOSED to reach. It is an ACHIEVEMENT to kill your millionth monster. It is an ACHIEVEMENT to reach 10k hours of gameplay. Losing your first baby tooth is an ACHIEVEMENT.

I dont think losing a tooth is an achievement. Everything else is an achievement, and a challenge at the same time. Challenge to reach 10k hours that you achieve.

Challenges can be very different on a difficulty scale. Something you not considered a challenge, can still be a challenge. Challenge don't need to be a hardest event to be a challenge. You can say getting to lvl 90 is not a challenge, but it is for someone. And if we go to definition of the words, we will see that "challenge" not always required to be extremly hard. Challenging you to drink a bottle of water does not implies anything, it's inviting you to try and do so, nothing more. You can say it's easy and stupid challenge, i agree, but it was still a challenge.

Ultimately if we return to the game, what you consider a challenge is a race, it have winners and losers. GGG dont do races anymore. And if you consider not completing a challenge to be a loss. Then there's a lot of "losers" in the game already, GGG do statistic previously and only 6% of players do above 20 challenges.

And to return back to my main point, challenges in game must have a scale, because 40/40 must be some kind of an achievement. But focusing 3 challenges around the hardest possible content with extra conditions is too much. You can have 2 challenges, one for beating the hardest content, and one with extra condition, and it will be more than enought.

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arknath wrote:

Challenges are not mandatory also has challenge in the name. I see no issue with having very very tough content as part of it. I'd much rather have them be challenging than grindy.

Pretty much this.


Not much else to say about the subject.


If you are incapable of doing it, then that is a goal for you to strive for. Rather than asking the developers to dumb down the game for you.


Right now, if you play trade, there is a solution if you cant do these yourself and you dont want to get good. Just buy a carry (though I dont think this should be allowed for anything to be honest, carries should be eliminated in all forms in every video game).

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triada13 wrote:

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Achievements are benchmarks you are SUPPOSED to reach. It is an ACHIEVEMENT to kill your millionth monster. It is an ACHIEVEMENT to reach 10k hours of gameplay. Losing your first baby tooth is an ACHIEVEMENT.

I dont think losing a tooth is an achievement. Everything else is an achievement, and a challenge at the same time. Challenge to reach 10k hours that you achieve.

Challenges can be very different on a difficulty scale. Something you not considered a challenge, can still be a challenge. Challenge don't need to be a hardest event to be a challenge. You can say getting to lvl 90 is not a challenge, but it is for someone. And if we go to definition of the words, we will see that "challenge" not always required to be extremly hard. Challenging you to drink a bottle of water does not implies anything, it's inviting you to try and do so, nothing more. You can say it's easy and stupid challenge, i agree, but it was still a challenge.

Ultimately if we return to the game, what you consider a challenge is a race, it have winners and losers. GGG dont do races anymore. And if you consider not completing a challenge to be a loss. Then there's a lot of "losers" in the game already, GGG do statistic previously and only 6% of players do above 20 challenges.

And to return back to my main point, challenges in game must have a scale, because 40/40 must be some kind of an achievement. But focusing 3 challenges around the hardest possible content with extra conditions is too much. You can have 2 challenges, one for beating the hardest content, and one with extra condition, and it will be more than enought.

Losing your first and last baby tooth is a milestone in child development and growth. Quite literally defined as an "achievement" (milestone = achievement). Playing a game for 10k hours is NOT a challenge, killing a million monsters is NOT a challenge. It is an achievement you naturally get from playing the game, much like losing a tooth is a natural achievement of growing up (which apparently you don't even consider an achievement). They are exactly the same in function. Natural progression of Time.

You are absolutely wrong about "race" vs. challenge. A race is a TYPE of challenge, not the other way around. A very specific challenge centered around speed.

Win vs. Lose: yes, not being ABLE to complete a challenge is an example of LOSING that challenge. If you aren't playing the game / quit before reaching kitava, that isn't an example of a "lost" challenge, thats an example of never even attempting the challenge in the first place. There is a world of difference and the crux of the argument here.

Lets go back to the "water" example you provided: you challenge me to drink a bottle of water. If I totally ignore you and just walk away, I didn't fail the challenge. I simply did not even attempt the challenge. But that's precisely the point. There should be NO challenges that aren't conscious efforts on the part of the player. If that means there are only 10 challenges instead of 40, then that's what it should be. One shouldn't ever be able to complete a "challenge" in this gam, without it being tied to hard content or special circumstances.

Reaching level 90 may be "difficult" for some, but it is NOT a challenge. You will naturally get to 90 if you just play the game long enough. Unless you are really really really really really bad or clueless...


And yes, challenges can be gradations of difficult. "Beat the shaper" is not on the same difficulty level as "Beat uber elder", which is not on the same difficulty as "beat the shaper while equipped with only 3 pieces of gear".

With the exception of a boss fight you might naturally get to (such as shaper), there shouldn't be a single challenge that you earn without looking at the challenge board and making a conscious effort to attempt it.



I'd like to add that achievements can ALSO be easy or hard. Losing a tooth is an easy achievement. Reaching adolescence is a relatively easy achievement. Killing a million monsters in PoE is a hard achievement. The difference is you literally can't "lose" these...if you are playing the game regularly you will eventually kill a million monsters no matter what, short of quitting the game. A "challenge" would be: kill 100k monsters in the span of 5 hours of gameplay. Oh....that would also be a "race".

Yeah this feedback was bound to get shouted down by the people with a vested interest in the challenges seeming to be hard to obtain. A lot of people in here seemingly get their self worth from their challenges and because a lot of those same people just purchase/share/get free rides of the challenges in 820 they really don't care if they're harder or not.

In fact making them even more obtuse and exclusive just ramps up those peoples perceived value for their hard earned/shared/purchased achievements.

Personally I don't have a dog in this fight. But that said on principle the ubers were supposed to have been "bragging rights" content that no one needed to do. That lasted exactly 1 league IIRC LOL. I have to admit its hard to make an "on principle" argument when GGG couldn't uphold that principle themselves for more than about ~3 months.

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alhazred70 wrote:

Yeah this feedback was bound to get shouted down by the people with a vested interest in the challenges seeming to be hard to obtain. A lot of people in here seemingly get their self worth from their challenges and because a lot of those same people just purchase/share/get free rides of the challenges in 820 they really don't care if they're harder or not.

Do you start every first post in someone else's thread with a passive aggressive attack, and not reading any of the comments or the OP? This is a true pattern. No dog in the fight, but you feel the need to attack everyone regardless.

Share your feedback by all means. Disagree all you want. Stop passive aggressively codifying everyone else as noisy and useless without even bothering to read what others have written.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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alhazred70 wrote:

Yeah this feedback was bound to get shouted down by the people with a vested interest in the challenges seeming to be hard to obtain. A lot of people in here seemingly get their self worth from their challenges and because a lot of those same people just purchase/share/get free rides of the challenges in 820 they really don't care if they're harder or not.

Do you start every first post in someone else's thread with a passive aggressive attack, and not reading any of the comments or the OP? This is a true pattern. No dog in the fight, but you feel the need to attack everyone regardless.

Share your feedback by all means. Disagree all you want. Stop passive aggressively codifying everyone else as noisy and useless without even bothering to read what others have written.

So you honestly don't see any passive aggressive first posts preceding mine in this thread? thats interesting.

I'm not really sure I see your justification to try and police my tone either way. We're literally arguing in another thread where your first post was straight out of the gate:

"uh.......what? You DO realize"

So here you are all "passive aggression in your first post is wrong for thee but not for me".

Considering Uber bosses were made as optional, it seems weird that they are quickly becoming a mandatory benchmark for build quality to some.


Honestly I would enjoy more challenges that were more interesting and less like... defeat the shaper without taking damage, or touch 500 altars.

Not that I would 40/40, but more interesting challenges in general might expose people to less efficient but fun parts of the game they might normally ignore. Most challenges right now feel uninspired.

As a side note I think many people put too much perceived social value on challenges or chase items. Any attempt to devalue their "gamer swag" is usually met with a weird amount of hostility.

Let's be honest each challenge is about 2 div max, figure most people would pay for a carry if they even cared. They don't confer much if any elite status.