I think GGG is overestimating it's userbase by a lot

"

feike wrote:

It woudnt be an issue if the content locking it was reasonable, but its totally not: T17 atm are harder than most uber fights, wich were straight up said to be optional, aspirational content when they were introduced. T17 maps plain cant be done on the majority of the builds out there

"

Waitn4D4 wrote:

Its 40c to get a t17 carry. 40c.

If you cant make 40c, chances are you are not going to be able to make much use of that fifth slot anyways.

"

exsea wrote:

"

Xzorn wrote:

"

as josh strife hayes mentioned. the harder the content you create, the less options players have as theyre forced to be increasingly more efficient in order to clear said content.

This is not correct. More difficult content does demand more efficiency however that does not directly translate to less options. Only when notably flaws are present does this happen.

when poe first released 200k dps was considered "damn a lot of damage"

we had tons of janky builds and me myself i fell for the noob trap of using 3 main skills, 1 for melee trash mob clearing, 1 for melee single target and 1 for melee projectiles for super hard enemies that required kiting.

but that was fine. we didnt NEED to be too good.

build diversity was at it's peak at this point. especially before ascension came out.

but everytime GGG added harder content. build diversity was pruned by build viability.

if your build is not viable, it is no longer a "valid" build. everytime GGG added tougher content, more builds became less viable.

if you're not efficient, you will be punished by not being able to do content. your options become less as a result. no real way around it. even on poe ninja we can see heatmaps and see how certain nodes or certain pathing is utilized less. theres a reason for it.

i would disagree and say it directly translates to less options. the easier the content the more inefficient the player can be, and that would translate to having more options. a marauder could play traps as a support or main skill. a witch could be playing melee. we rarely see them coz they simply arent really viable.

"

Zandafolf wrote:

GGG has continuously ramped up the content by an order of magnitude and they prune a lot of playstyles out of that nice little sweet spot realm of viable and accessible without significant currency investment. I don't think there's any truthful and reasonable argument anybody could say to the contrary.

Can you do some janky goofy build and clear some content? Sure. Its possible, its just going to require a lot more knowledge, effort, and orbs.

But that's not what we're talking about here. The topic of content creep and mechanic bloat in maps is starting to get on people's nerves. I certainly don't like it. I just made a thread of my own explaining why I think T17's are a gaping stinky hole in a patch that was awesome and a league that honestly isn't so bad after they changed some things.

"

exsea wrote:

"

Zandafolf wrote:

GGG has continuously ramped up the content by an order of magnitude and they prune a lot of playstyles out of that nice little sweet spot realm of viable and accessible without significant currency investment. I don't think there's any truthful and reasonable argument anybody could say to the contrary.

Can you do some janky goofy build and clear some content? Sure. Its possible, its just going to require a lot more knowledge, effort, and orbs.

But that's not what we're talking about here. The topic of content creep and mechanic bloat in maps is starting to get on people's nerves. I certainly don't like it. I just made a thread of my own explaining why I think T17's are a gaping stinky hole in a patch that was awesome and a league that honestly isn't so bad after they changed some things.

the reason why i bring it up is because my angle is to highlight that difficult/aspirational content should be just that. it should be optional.

there should be a distinction between "what a regular player is expected to be able to clear" vs "what a good player is expected to be able to clear".

to me i personally feel that this line is drawn at the 2nd voidstone. the third voidstone ramps difficulty up a huge lot. ubers is etc too.

i m actually fine with very difficult content that the regular bloke cant handle but the rewards that you can get from them dont feel optional at all. players would stalk global for free carries or even downright pay for carry services. if it were truly optional, people wouldnt give a damn at all. i cant remember the last league that i delved properly. that is a good example of truly "optional" content. similarly atziri/harbinger/beastiary.

"

Waitn4D4 wrote:

Its 40c to get a t17 carry. 40c.

If you cant make 40c, chances are you are not going to be able to make much use of that fifth slot anyways.

"

crash0verwr1te wrote:

For example, I have leveled 3 characters this season and am running T16 maps yellow, vaaled, allflame, fragments and scarabs. Yet I have only found 1 Divine Vessel. Of course I can buy these in the trade for 4 - 5 chaos, but I don't want to.

It totally annoys me that I play for hundreds of hours and just nothing drops.

"

Scarletsword wrote:

"

crash0verwr1te wrote:

For example, I have leveled 3 characters this season and am running T16 maps yellow, vaaled, allflame, fragments and scarabs. Yet I have only found 1 Divine Vessel. Of course I can buy these in the trade for 4 - 5 chaos, but I don't want to.

It totally annoys me that I play for hundreds of hours and just nothing drops.

What league mechanics are you playing and what scarabs are you using if you don't mind me asking?