Magic find gear is bad game design

MF has been around for years so its not the problem all of the sudden.

And hyperbole arguments about build power doesn't help either.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Read the rest of my post, my friend....not just the first few lines.

And then re-read the OP and the specific complaints he has with MF design

I only replied to the first few lines to point out that its not just T7's. In any case the OP being wrong about a detail doesn't invalidate the premise that MF is bad. Even if I don't agree with them; or feel that they made a sound case for why its so bad.

I actually agree with most of the rest of your post so no real need to respond. Just don't agree with your lead in is all.

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alhazred70 wrote:

I only replied to the first few lines to point out that its not just T7's.

I literally wrote that exact thing in the VERY next line that you stopped your quote at lol...

Also...people don't seem to realize the actual cost of creating a GOOD mf build, even if you happen to have an aurabot with you. It's not "slap on TS and any gear and go". The skills are NOT that OP on their own. They BECOME OP when you have damn near perfect gear. We aren't talking the stupid exploding totems ridiculousness...things like SRS, TS, you name it, require TONS of great gear to actually function in red juiced maps. You might not need every piece of perfect gear because of the aurabot, but you still need hundreds of divines worth just to even get it started.

I see that argument all the time and it makes me cringe because if you pour in an upfront cost of a mirror's worth of divines (or more in some cases), its gonna take you quite some time to recoup your costs even with the boosted drops. Whereas you can take a fraction of the divines, make a powerful "normal" character, and net basically the same amount of currency. The ones that truly benefit from MF are those players that can blast maps 24/7 and have parties that work well together. And frankly, if that is what you are doing than you SHOULD be rewarded more than me playing 3 hours all by myself.

I have done it all....full mirrored mf gear, no mf boss farmer, party play, solo play, every type of content this game has to offer, etc. The NET benefits of MF are really not as drastic as people seem to think they are. You see one video of ONE loot explosion of 10 divines in one stack and raise the pitchforks against mf. But for taht one explosion there are hundreds of "normal" crap explosions. For those 10 divines that dropped, you had to spend 100 divines in gear...meaning you need 10x those drops just to break even on perhaps a single piece of invested gear. Meanwhile, johnny reckoning over here can spend the same amount of time taking out breachlords and ubers and delving with no mf and drop 10s of awakened gems, uber uniques, high lvl bases, without any mf and make 100s of divines with far less overhead.

In almost all instances...100% more quantity of crap is STILL crap. A monster for you drops 6 transmutes. In my team it might drop 30 transmutes. They don't magically become "6 transmutes with no mf, 30 DIVINES with mf!!!!!!!"

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Chickenwink wrote:

MF has been around for years so its not the problem all of the sudden.

And hyperbole arguments about build power doesn't help either.

It's not "all of the sudden", it has always been a problem.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

The fundamental premise in this post is wrong...

MF does NOT provide you with the best loot in the game. If you want the BEST loot in the game, you farm uber bosses and ultra juiced t16s. ilvl 86 bases, awakened gems, build defining uniques do NOT drop from t7 maps.

What you ACTUALLY have a problem with is TRADE. Trade makes all loot irrelevant. You can farm chaos in Act 10 and buy an uber boss exclusive if you so choose. MF doesn't play a role in ANY of this.

A GOOD mf character can farm t16s and get probably a solid 3-4x the loot per map....but that kind of build also REQUIRES hundreds of divines to make work. For a fraction of that investment, you can make a GOOD powerful build and kill bosses and uber hard content and make tons of currency selling those exclusive drop items.

Plenty of players, streamers, the "best" players in the game do NO mf because bossing and the hardest content is profitable enough and comparable to a fully decked out mf character running yellow maps.

MF is not the problem, and it certainly isn't the OPs problem because all the explanation is just completely incorrect. Some people like to work bottom-up and get tons of lower valued items that eventually add up to a large sum. But others do just fine making the most powerful build they can and going top-down getting the rarer, but WAY more valuable endgame drops.

You didn't address anything I said in my post. Regardless of what the "best" strategy is for making currency (it's actually probably crafting or flipping, not that it matters), mf is bad design. I'm not going to repeat myself because my arguments were sound. Idk how you made the leap to trade, of all things. My post has absolutely nothing to do with trade - it sounds like that's your own issue.

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Degithelion wrote:

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Chickenwink wrote:

MF has been around for years so its not the problem all of the sudden.

And hyperbole arguments about build power doesn't help either.

It's not "all of the sudden", it has always been a problem.

It 100% is though

Feel free to link to where MF has had several posts made about how broken it is in prior leagues even though it has literally not changed much at all in several years. I have not seen it.

Windripper TShot has existed since I started playing in harvest/heist. And yea … still there

It’s funny that this league everyone is losing it about magic find when it has nothing to do with anything, and everything to do with the league mechanic being a mapwide buffed version of a sentinel.

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Degithelion wrote:

You didn't address anything I said in my post. Regardless of what the "best" strategy is for making currency (it's actually probably crafting or flipping, not that it matters), mf is bad design. I'm not going to repeat myself because my arguments were sound. Idk how you made the leap to trade, of all things. My post has absolutely nothing to do with trade - it sounds like that's your own issue.

Sure I did.

Your entire point boils down to two things, and the points being made are absolutely NOT sound.

1) MF is anti-power fantasy because it incentivizes you to gimp your character for the "best" loot. This point is false. You can only get the best loot from the hardest content which is almost totally exclusive to REALLY GOOD characters. Mf nets you lots of SMALLER loot, which you can then combine to buy the best loot from players who (guess what) are likely not running mf builds and are farming bosses and high end content.

2) Most mf farming does NOT yield this massive windfall you say it does, to the point of skewing the scale so drastically that players who want to focus on power miss out on basically ALL the juicing that only mf provides. This is also totally untrue, and is readily available for you to see on ANY stream and in any forum post. There are far more people NOT playing mf than are, and they do just fine. Non-mf builds are also pretty much on average a small fraction of the cost of a functional mf build. And keep raising that buy in the more juice you want to add to the maps to actually make it worthwhile in the first place.



The reason why I brought up trade is because the way you describe the problems of mf involve "affording" things like the best items of the game or juicing. Being able to "afford" things is a trade issue. But if you are literally talking about the drops themselves, like your "power fantasy" nonsense....awakened gems, t0 uniques, etc. ONLY DROP from the content you can beat with a fantastically powerful build. So where does mf fall into this issue? Your whole central point completely falls apart. This post is short-sighted at best, and totally off the mark at worst.


"There is little point working to obtain best in slot gear and perfect your character when the optimal strategy is to neuter your character to the point of just barely functioning, stacking all the garbage IIQ items you can, and dropping all the way down to yellow maps."

This is what sparked your entire post...and its just plain wrong. That isn't the optimal strategy, and it isn't really even all that more effective than creating a build that can handle higher content and doing exactly what you say people DON'T do because of mf.


And lets end this with: WHY do people mf in the first place? Whats the POINT of gaining all that currency? What is the end goal. Because I bet its not to fill the currency tab and say "look I have 5000 divines!". No....its "working to obtain the best in slot gear and perfect your character". It is a SINGLE strategy of getting towards that goal, but there are many many others that are equally valid and probably equally as powerful. And its the single most EXPENSIVE strategy too.