Make Transfigured Gems have a separate trigger limit / cooldown

So a while back there was a meme build I loved to do.

Triple Rain of Arrows using Maloney's Mechanism & Lioneye's Paws.

It was later discovered this was a bug and cruelly patched out.

I had hoped that with the introduction of transfigured copies they would be separated and my meme build would work again, sadly this is not the case (or its bugged, tried with Maloney's Mechanism using & RoAo Saturation + Lioneye's Paws that triggers classic RoA).

With the introduction of transfigured gems there is an opportunity to rectify this and even extend it to other skills.

While transfigured gems are similar in nature or theme to their counterparts they are not "the same" gem anymore, many are functionally different and it should no longer quantify as triggering "the same" gem.

Please provide transfigured gems with their own separate trigger limit, no longer sharing the cooldown limit with their non-identical counterparts (both transfigured and non-transfigured).

good idea to put another trigger scource in the game right at the point when the tech staff is putting out fires left right and center while the servers are in meltdown mode cus they barely can handle the shit that is already ingame

i know you arent serious but its just an unrealistic cristmas present at this point and most likely for the forseable future

"

ScoutAT wrote:

good idea to put another trigger scource in the game right at the point when the tech staff is putting out fires left right and center while the servers are in meltdown mode cus they barely can handle the shit that is already ingame

i know you arent serious but its just an unrealistic cristmas present at this point and most likely for the forseable future

What exactly is the server performance advantage of allowing OP to run three separate skills that are triggered but not three copies of the same skill? It's still the same number of skills being triggered, so I'm not seeing how there'd be any substantive difference in terms of performance.

"

What exactly is the server performance ...

read the thread title. op wants seperate trigger limits in order to bypass cooldowns so he can blast more.

i.e. there is a reason why no cd coc doesnt exist anymore and its not because the game never had an epilepsy warning at startup

"

ScoutAT wrote:

"

What exactly is the server performance ...

read the thread title. op wants seperate trigger limits in order to bypass cooldowns so he can blast more.

i.e. there is a reason why no cd coc doesnt exist anymore and its not because the game never had an epilepsy warning at startup

Unless I've just completely misunderstood the request, the issue he's raising isn't with multiple instances of a single trigger like CoC, it's with multiples of the thing being triggered. He can trigger separate skills with CoC, Maloney's, and so on, and each would have its own cooldown because those are separate triggers. What he's describing is only a limitation for multiple copies of the same triggered skill; if he can trigger a firestorm with CoC and a rain of arrows with Maloney's, with independent cooldowns, there's no performance argument against being able to trigger two separate copies of RoA instead, one with CoC and the other with Maloney's.

"

ScoutAT wrote:

"

What exactly is the server performance ...

read the thread title. op wants seperate trigger limits in order to bypass cooldowns so he can blast more.

i.e. there is a reason why no cd coc doesnt exist anymore and its not because the game never had an epilepsy warning at startup

This isn't something server melting. You can literally already trigger two skills at the same time via maloneys and lioneyes paws / replica lioneyes paws.

MY only request, which you missed, is that they no longer SHARE the cooldown.

Lioneye's Paws triggers Rain of Arrows.
Maloney's Mechanism can trigger just about any bow skill.

I can trigger storm rain in maloneys while lioneyes paws triggers rain of arrows.

I could PREVIOUSLY but no longer, trigger rain of arrows in maloneys alongside the rain of arrows from lioneyes paws.

My request is to simply allow players to trigger skills that are transmuted alongside other copies of themselves.

Rain of Arrows of Saturation in Maloney's alongside Rain of Arrows in Lioneye's Paws.

This isn't some wild insane change.

Another example: Kitava's Thirst triggers all gems simultaneously

You can trigger ice nova and lightning nova inside of Kitava's Thirst.
You currently CANNOT trigger ice nova and ice nova of deepfrost (2 different gems).

THAT is the change I am requesting. And I am not necessarily requesting them go overboard with resources at Christmas time for something so minor and niche either.

i'd remind everyone, that once upon a time there was a dude that equipped flicker strike in many of his item slots to bypass the cooldown limit.

it was hilarious.

GGG then made all gems share a cooldown.

it is simply intentional.

so.....PoE history lesson time.

This WAS a thing way way way back in the very early days in 2012 and 2013. Almost EVERY build was a mass of overlapping simultaneous trigger skills. I made so many of them I lost count. Quadruple EK. Fireball Arc double double trigger. Cast on critical strike mayhem with discharge and a bunch of other supports. It was so crazy that you didn't need to use a single support gem: it was ALWAYS better just to trigger another copy of the skill because that = 100% more damage.

It DESTROYED the game servers and broke every new game design. These things paved the way VERY early on for two HUGE things:
1) Cooldowns on triggers and the removal of same-skill multi triggers
2) Banning the use of macros for simultaneous inputs

They will NEVER, ever, ever, ever add back in what the OP is asking for. It was actually one of the very first game-breaking, game-melting issue encountered by the devs. And as the game grew rapidly in that first year or two, the problem only got worse and worse. Check the early days of the trigger support gems: almost every league had some kind of MAJOR change to their functionality.



The OP raises an interesting point though: did GGG program the new transmute gems to be "new" gems or the equivalent of "alt quality" gems? They may "look" like new gems because they are named differently and separated, but they may function in code as alternate quality (ie: the SAME skill). I wouldn't be surprised if GGG took the incredibly easy way out and just....divided and altered the pre-existing alt qualities rather than ACTUALLY designing totally separate and new stand-alone skills.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

They will NEVER, ever, ever, ever add back in what the OP is asking for.

Except that isn't what I asked for at all.
Your first line with history makes it look like you don't know what I asked then your second point about "bringing up a good point" is literally closer to the actual base of my post in the first place.

I am not asking for individual gems to have cooldowns. I am NOT asking for the ability to have 5 copies of flicker strike or cold snap or mirror / blink arrow in THAT sense.

I AM however, to your credit touching on it in the roundabout wrong way, talking about transfigured gems being quantified as their OWN SEPARATE SKILLS for the sake of cooldowns and triggers.

Should a Cold Snap of Power share a cooldown with Cold Snap? This post summarized? NO, they should not share a cooldown. However I was referring more specifically to triggered skills that share a name, not even skills with inherent cooldowns.

For example if you use Lighting Spire Trap with Lightning Spire trap of Overloading, both consume a cooldown copy of the skill despite being entirely separate entities at this point, one with a significantly longer cooldown.

My request can be summarized again as follows with two different examples:

Lighting Spire Trap + Lighting Spire Trap = Shared Cooldown
Lighting Spire Trap + Lighting Spire Trap of Overloading = Not Shared Cooldown

Triggered Gem + Triggered Gem of same name = Shared Cooldown
Triggered Gem + Transfigured copy of same Gem = Not Shared Cooldown

Apparently my communication skills are crap that I need to reiterate that. This isn't even a crazy request because you can still have two completely different skills triggered, my request is that transfigured gems be quantified in that same category.

"

Raghin wrote:

[
Except that isn't what I asked for at all.

I mean...it is exactly what you asked for! Your very first sentence was about the triple rain of arrows trigger build and how you wanted to feel that again. You wouldn't have started this thread if you wanted to "trigger 3 different spells in one build" because that is already possible.

Separate from your main point I need to share with you: You have a misunderstanding of how triggers work on a fundamental level. Either that, or you are unintentionally waffling between "same time" and "same cooldown", which are two VERY different mechanics at play. There are NO circumstances of simultaneous triggers in this game. They ALWAYS act in a sequence. See "trigger order" on this page:

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Trigger

The point about "transfigured gems should be treated as separate skills"....I'm not too sure. They really AREN'T separate skills. We are fooled into thinking they are because they show up as separate gems. BUT this is the same system that was around with alternate quality gems. You could have a "Cyclone" gem and a "Divergent Cyclone" gem. They are fundamentally the same skill in the core of the game. This "new" system didn't and likely won't change that coding or activity. I mean....most of the animations are exactly the same too. They are very clearly built on the same "foundation". Can you even imagine what it would be like to hold down 3 buttons and activate 3 separate cyclones at the same time? That is essentially what you want them to allow you to do. If they did NOT share a cooldown, you could run Cyclone and Cyclone of Tumult at the same time. Same for a LOT of other skills. The game can't function like that.

Why do I think they won't change this? Because it would invalidate the transfigured gems usage. If you could simultaneously trigger multiple forms of the same base skill, it removes the need to "specialize" on one which is what I gather to be the entire point of the transfigured skill system.