Make Transfigured Gems have a separate trigger limit / cooldown

Kitava's Thirst is a Simultaneous Trigger.

If you use two separate skill link setups, like Lioneye's Paws & Maloneys Mechanism they WILL trigger simultaneously.

In specific cases like these skills are simultaneously triggered.

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Raghin wrote:

Kitava's Thirst is a Simultaneous Trigger.

If you use two separate skill link setups, like Lioneye's Paws & Maloneys Mechanism they WILL trigger simultaneously.

In specific cases like these skills are simultaneously triggered.

as frustrating as it is to you jsuslak already pointed out the main thing.

transfigured and non transfigured are all the same skills albeit with different flavours.

he also gave a even more in depth explanation on the history of cooldowns and why GGG made cooldowns be shared.

what else is left to be said?

youre stubbornly claiming that transfigured versions and non transfigured gems are separate gems. we're simply pointing out to you that they are and you're not happy with that.

we understand WHY you would prefer it to be separate. but its exactly as he said. everyone would just slap various similar gems without need for support gems. have everything trigger by 1001 different trigger supports.

pretty sure GGG doesnt want that or else my own old vaalpact berserker that had cast on damage taken would still be powerful today

As far as I'm aware they are NOT simultaneous trigger!!! Even in those circumstances. I would welcome being proven wrong, but it is very clear:

There are TWO rounds of trigger checks: one is the order within a single item (which Kitava bypasses), the other is across your character between separate items with their own triggers.

Kitava's thirst, as far as I know, is the ONLY item in the game with simultaneous triggers. If you pair this with another trigger item such as maloneys, they still follow the ITEM order. Maloney is an off-hand, so it will trigger AFTER all the spells in Kitava's thirst are triggered. You are absolutely welcome to find something to prove me wrong....


But I digress....none of this changes the central point of whether "transfigured" gems REALLY fit the description of a "separate" skill. Let's be BRUTALLY honest here too: if they WERE all separate skills, don't you think GGG would leverage the fact that they created 100s of NEW SKILLS by giving them all unique names? How much good PR would that have netted them?! But no, they didn't do this. They KEPT the base name, labeled them as "transfigured", not "new". And accepted the bad press of "Aren't these just...the alt qualities that you just removed?"

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jsuslak313 wrote:

As far as I'm aware they are NOT simultaneous trigger!!! Even in those circumstances. I would welcome being proven wrong, but it is very clear:

There are TWO rounds of trigger checks: one is the order within a single item (which Kitava bypasses), the other is across your character between separate items with their own triggers.

Kitava's thirst, as far as I know, is the ONLY item in the game with simultaneous triggers. If you pair this with another trigger item such as maloneys, they still follow the ITEM order. Maloney is an off-hand, so it will trigger AFTER all the spells in Kitava's thirst are triggered. You are absolutely welcome to find something to prove me wrong....


But I digress....none of this changes the central point of whether "transfigured" gems REALLY fit the description of a "separate" skill. Let's be BRUTALLY honest here too: if they WERE all separate skills, don't you think GGG would leverage the fact that they created 100s of NEW SKILLS by giving them all unique names? How much good PR would that have netted them?! But no, they didn't do this. They KEPT the base name, labeled them as "transfigured", not "new". And accepted the bad press of "Aren't these just...the alt qualities that you just removed?"

What bad press???

If you aren't into having the potential of gems that are the same but different that's your business. I'm happily enjoying Void Sphere as a potential primary damage skill along with the idea someday Tornado might be as well.

If you don't understand what I am requesting, go equip Lioneye's Paws with Maloney's Mechanism. Use 3 different skills. Note how when you attack with the bow you get 3 attacks per button press when the cooldown is available for each. That is what I am referring to by simultaneous trigger and that alone.

Previously when I used Maloney's with Lioneye's Paws I could have rain of arrows in the quiver and the boots trigger rain of arrows. This was a bug and patched. New transfigured gems, new rules, new examinations of things. Thus the request that using something like lioneye's paws with maloneys socketed with a transfigured rain of arrows.

They literally bum rushed 150+ transfigured gems to launch to the last minute, even saying they would be more aggressive with balancing. It's insanely more easy to take an existing skill and have it do something differently than come up with 100+ unique names for said skills with potentially new visuals ontop of that.

If you actually think its reasonable to come up with 100+ names, let alone special visuals for each one you sir have no concept of game development. Your argument is insanely flawed with that point.

They removed the alt qualities with threshold jewels and lab enchants because they were each attempting to achieve THE SAME GOAL. Altering an existing gems behaviour to play differently. One new system, MUCH better implementation, better usage for lab runs than worthless glove and boot enchants with the wish and a prayer at the correct helmet enchantment (nearly impossible to be useful in ssf especially).

With respect, the proving of the wrong is that the initial request wasn't quite grasped, despite using multiple examples. Perhaps you have some "language" definition of the terms I am using locked in your head, but that isn't how I am applying it.

You agree that kitava's is simultaneous but get picky about how two separate setups trigger with "order", which isn't relevant in this case because the whole point was:

Lightning Spire Trap + Lightning Spire trap of overloading shouldn't share a cooldown (if you use one the other loses a charge).

A transfigured gem copy should not be sharing the same cooldowns with other copies.

Using your words (i believe this order was correct when i tried), using rain of arrows of saturation in Maloney's Mechanism puts all copies of rain of arrows that would be triggered from any other sources on cooldown, including the normal copy provided by Lioneye's Paws.

That is what I am asking to be changed. Please don't continue this back and forth rant if you still don't understand.

^I'm done with this thread. Exsea was right, you have no interest in actually reading responses. You just want something that has already been historically detrimental to the game and phased out. You focus on the wrong part of every response, and ignore all the rest. And you claim I'm the one misunderstanding...

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AxiomOfAnarchy wrote:

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ScoutAT wrote:

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What exactly is the server performance ...

read the thread title. op wants seperate trigger limits in order to bypass cooldowns so he can blast more.

i.e. there is a reason why no cd coc doesnt exist anymore and its not because the game never had an epilepsy warning at startup

Unless I've just completely misunderstood the request, the issue he's raising isn't with multiple instances of a single trigger like CoC, it's with multiples of the thing being triggered. He can trigger separate skills with CoC, Maloney's, and so on, and each would have its own cooldown because those are separate triggers. What he's describing is only a limitation for multiple copies of the same triggered skill; if he can trigger a firestorm with CoC and a rain of arrows with Maloney's, with independent cooldowns, there's no performance argument against being able to trigger two separate copies of RoA instead, one with CoC and the other with Maloney's.

Thankyou Axiom for understanding my actual post.

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Raghin wrote:

Thankyou Axiom for understanding my actual post.

Your choice to ignore responses does not constitue a misunderstanding. That point was already responded to.

1) You yourself already admitted the Maloney same skill trigger was A BUG. I pointed to historical evidence WHY GGG got rid of same-skill triggering, both because of server issues and because of how it invalidates ALL support gems.

2) Transfigured gems, like Alternate Q gems, are NOT NEW SKILLS. They are the same skill, and as such follow the same skill rules. If they didn't we would have SERIOUS issues. Such as the examples I provided: running multi cyclones at the same time, casting all 3 arc versions at the same time, etc. It invalidates the reasoning behind having Transfigured/Alts in the first place if you can use them all at once, and it once again causes all the problems that we have ALREADY seen with same-skill triggers.

Running "Arc of Surging" with 5 supports would NEVER ever measure up to running CWDT or CWC Arc+Arc+Arc+Arc

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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Raghin wrote:

Thankyou Axiom for understanding my actual post.

Your choice to ignore responses does not constitue a misunderstanding. That point was already responded to.

There's a difference between ignoring your post and fundamentally disagreeing with the your entire point of view and opinion + interpretation of past settings.

If there was another skill that functioned similarly to ice spear and I used Cospri's Malice + that other skill in a CoC setup, you wouldn't disable the ability for those two to be triggered from the same critical strike even though they were powerful.

Therefor there isn't an issue if I use cospri's malice to trigger ice spear while CoC triggers a transfigured ice spear (Ice spear of splitting).

You are welcome do disagree. But in this example I fully and honestly believe you are just straight wrong. I'm not gaslighting you, I JUST DON'T AGREE.

Not ignoring the past, just saying things have changed between then and now, and this isn't a game breaking suggestion.

I was also assuming it was a misunderstanding because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps I was doing something wrong in my explanation rather then your point being one I completely disagree with.

not once did you say you disagree or offer reasons why you disagreed....you simply kept saying "You aren't responding to my point!" or otherwise just being rude and completely dismissive.

It's not an interpretation...it is historical FACT that same-skill triggers caused exactly what I wrote and that GGG took steps to remove those interactions. THAT is why the triple rain of arrows was a BUG and not a feature. But whatever. You can ignore me and them under the guise of "disagreement" but it doesn't change the fact that this has all happened before. It's the reason that things like the builds I made in 2013 DO NOT EXIST today. This is FACT.


Your latest Cospri example is completely besides the point because it is impossible in the current game. There DOES NOT EXIST two similar-enough skills to defend your original post. That is the whole point! There is no other skill "similar" to Ice Spear.....EXCEPT the transfigured versions which aren't even "similar", but actually the "same" skill. And guess what? Since the addition of Alternate Quality Skills, this has always been the way they function. Were you clamoring on the forums to remove shared cooldowns between Normal/Divergent/Phantasmal versions of the same skill? I highly doubt it. What we have now is the SAME system.

You are STUCK in this thought-space that transfigured gems are DIFFERENT skills, when they functionally aren't. You can definitely disagree with this point, but I fully believe I provided far more proof than you have as to WHY they are the same skills.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Your latest Cospri example is completely besides the point because it is impossible in the current game.

Actually, it does exist.

In the example I already provided with Ice nova and Shock nova. Two skills that function nearly identically in prospect. You can CoC shock nova with ice nova in a cospri's.

You would dismiss a point you disagree with, so that isn't rude. Why would I build upon the oppositions argument when I believe the building blocks for that arguments basis is wrong.

There is nothing wrong with me thinking you are wrong. Yes there have been broken things in the past, yes there are systems that have been taken advantage of to break the game. One of the reasons triggers cost mana now is because you could infinite spam lancing steal with ice spear on crit to literally BREAK THE GAME.

I'm not asking for Ice Spear from Cast on Crit + Asenath Mark + Trigger Bow + CWDT + CWS + any future trigger supports or items.

I am asking for each Transfigured Gem to be treated as its own separate unit. You can only trigger as many versions of Ice Spear as there are transfigured copies in that case.

You don't agree with me, I don't agree with you, it evidently wasn't a misunderstanding. You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong. You seem to feel wronged, so all I can say to that is "sorry" if it felt like I was gaslighting you or being rude. Forum posts don't have instant response time or the ability to talk face to face + draw emotion.

Go enjoy your Christmas. Stop torturing yourself over someone elses request that doesn't agree with you.