JUGG and Chieftain ascendancy changes

dunno

I've played Chieftain and here's my interpretation:

If you like attack based builds with Fire, I would actually say Chieftain was a success. You have amazing defense and good scaling. Even resists are easy to cap.

Conversely, if you used fire spells, stay away from Chieftain. There's still good defense, but there is no offensive power. The only node that really helps when you need it requires you to stand still. Stand still = death.

Nghamu's advance is just too weak. 3 strength is like a joke and there aren't even that many nodes that really benefit from conversion because it only converts pure damage types, not damage with axes etc.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

The chieftain does NOT play well with anything beyond Early - Mid game. Like...nothing.

I know this doesn't even count as a playstyle around here, but Chieftain actually goes pretty well for melee, both slams and strikes. Free 7 link is nice and the clone provides extra damage. On top you get defenses on a level otherwise reserved for juggernauts. Yes, the ascendancy doesn't provide much in terms of DPS, if you plan on making some 100 mio dps build then chieftain isn't your best bet. But there are more than enoough tools to get decent dps without needing fat boosts from your ascendancies. Tasalio also provides a lot more utility than just capping resists early. Not like it's the best ascendancy in the game, i too feel it's a bit lacking outside of melee but it's not the worst either. Glad for example is way worse with nothing to offer aside from bleed which is shit to begin with.

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Pangaearocks wrote:

Not to necessarily counter your arguments (I've never played Chieftain, and don't have that deep knowledge of the 10,000 different interactions anyway), but this guy in Delve seems to be doing rather well with a Chieftain.

https://poe.ninja/builds/ancestor/character/pyller%C3%B8x/armstackerpylle?i=0&search=type%3Ddepthsolo

The cost of that build is extreme ofc. However, he has delved to a bit over depth 7200. That is nuts! Not the furthest, as those are hidden on poe.ninja, but damn impressive nevertheless.

he is doing well because he converts phys to chaos and fire while being 90% fire res/CI + ~1mil AR rating

the only thing Chieftain does is allows for 90% all res instead of 90% fire res (as you couldnt fit Melding and Ashes into one build, obviously)



the rework itself - having playing 4 chiefs so far (redoing old characters, that is important because it is kinda constraining)

- resistance nodes are great, no questions. one dimensional (everyone build them the same way) but still great. if every melee char could be as tanky as Chief - nobody would complain about melee
- +3 STR node is pointless even on stacker. the STR it provides is simply too low and conversion behaves based on peculiarities of wording - never a good thing.
- totem node is mostly pointless and looks like tailor-made for Flamewood. sadly taunt immune content exist making this build tainted.
- slam/strike branch is terrible because both slams and strikes are in terrible spot. free Fist of War for 50% of ascendancy is not a great deal
- dot multi is 'ok' because it saves A LOT of resources you can spend elsewhere and the range is actually huge

- explode node is fun, like real f.. fun. but requires awkward pathing to really make it work (generic chance to ignite). but it is worth it.


So unless someone wants to do something 'for science' you ALWAYS take resistance nodes and are left with 2 other choices.

unless you pick Dot + explode (fine, synergistic choice) there is no choice but to pick something mediocre


OR - splurge on Flame/Flesh for max res node and build something better with Jugg/Berserker

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sidtherat wrote:

OR - splurge on Flame/Flesh for max res node and build something better with Jugg/Berserker[/b]

I noticed that too...that build doesn't really use anything from the chief besides resistances that couldn't ALSO be done with similar dps or tankiness on Jugg/Berserker.

That last line you wrote is the primary problem. Ascendancies should have an identity...or they shouldn't exist. The chieftain changes REMOVED its identity in favor of generic buffs that can be gotten in either of the other two ascendancy offers (and some not even with that much difficulty...). To me, this is what completely and utterly trashes the entire ascendancy choice. Doesn't matter if chief performs well earlier on less gear, doesn't matter that it works well in HC: if it lacks identity and can ultimately be totally replaced within the SAME base class....it should not exist.

Ascendancy identity went out of the window the moment the introduced the forbidden jewels. No probably even earlier, when they made formerly ascendancy only features widely available. Anyone remembers when frenzy charges and onslaught were a raider thing? Or tailwind and deadeye? Or eternal flask uptime and pathfinder? Or traps/mines and saboteur?

Sure, jugg can use those jewels to get valako, but the same is true the other way around. Chief can just get untiring/unbreakable from jugg. And let's be real here, aside from accuracy stackers, jugg isn't providing anything in terms of damage either. It's pretty much defense only.