JUGG and Chieftain ascendancy changes

Changes absolutely nailed. It is fun to build and play with JUGG, and will with chieftain too. Also, I am waiting possible Berserker changes.

I'm curious "how" the changes nailed it for you? Not attacking, just genuinely curious what you feel is actually better now?

Only because I feel the opposite, and 99% of feedback on Chief especially is negative.

The resistance nodes on chief are powerful....but that's it. Everything else about it was trashed. And when you get to a certain point, only ONE of the resistance nodes is actually necessary. So the ascendancy is reduced to....a single valuable node.

Jugg received no changes...


At a glance, looks like you exclusively play HC which DOES mean the chieftain changes give you a higher edge with a TON of free defense. But outside of HC...the changes are terrible to me.

Same actually. I would enjoy a discussion why tawhoa was reduced in power for more activations(which slam skills don't want in general) , or why did they pick anti synergistic skill gems with tukohama.

Chieftan gas no real tankiness (layers) or damage( no %more damage anywhere). A jack of all trades that doesn't like any skill in the game.

Its position ob the passive tree really puts it to far away from good notables.

No flame though, just poe1 doesn't have the skill tree or gems for what chieftan wants. If fulcrum gets nerfed then it's dead beyond hope. Rf chieftan feels bad, melee totems are better on hierophant/champion/ jugg/ betserker/ raider/scion. Str stacking would rather be berserker, spells get very little benefit from any node.

The anti fire resist doesn't stop damage reduction so some mods still make you sit there forever. Maybe if it made enemy health regen apply to you instead, or something else equally weird in Addition it would be worth taking.

Maybe they could add 40% increased damage somewhere on the ascendancy to be on par with others. Right now its a running a huge deficit. I've thought about this a lot.

changes were to guardian and chieftain

chieftain has 1 good node which is valako, the rest are only good on few builds with little to no sinergy between them.


Ngamahu, Flame's Advance and ramako should be reworked to be a bit more universal


for instance rework Ngamahu to "modifiers that increase area of effect also increase fire damage"

jugg hasnt changed since 3.19

and the chieftain rework is terrible. they did the same thing they did to saboteur, to chieftain, destroyed half of the archetypes to add things no one asked for

chieftain lost free 50% conversion, ash on hit, fire leech, % str, the totem damage scaling, totem damage leeched as life, ancestor totem buff effect, endurance charge generation, +1 max endurance charge, regen per endurance charge, 20% phys taken as fire, totem activation range (100% was big), and many more stuff, and got what in return? nothing lmao. the class doesnt even have an identity anymore, it's like free melding, some negative res, 7 link body armour, and taunting totems??? like, chieftain used to be one of the main classes for totem playstyle, now it isnt even an option if you want to play totems, it's so funny

https://poe.ninja/builds/ancestor?skillmodes=Totem

lol.

the only cool thing is the new hinekora, but that only works well in simulacrum

I've never been a big fan of Chieftain

I play this character in this league, I can say that it is ascendancy to make a good tank

And when it comes to dmg and speed, well, you have to look for ways to increase it elsewhere

There are plenty of ways to do this in the current Path of Exile gameplay

This is the strong point of chieftain - you can easily build defense so you can focus on offense

I know, I know, people would like free additional projectiles in ascendancy, some ways to stack some attributes to make the dmg jump into space... For some players for sure maybe this ascendancy it is now "boring" but for others is now more "approachable"

I played IB chieftain as my league starter and found it to be remarkably efficient on zero budget. Dropped 5c for a perfect doomsower on day 2, which was enough to get pinnacle bosses down, atlas 90% filled in, and farm a few eggs in TotA. Then it was time to start something new.

Most of the negativity around the Chief rework is coming from people with zero firsthand experience who are parroting what some streamer said, without the knowledge or context to understand that the major complaint is a lack of high- budget scaling compared to jugg or berserker. In MOBA terms, it's an early game powerhouse that falls off hard, which is not at all the same as being a bad champion. If we get Endless Delve next month, I'm absolutely running another Chieftain because all of the built in utility makes it EXTREMELY easy to gear up to the point where your damage starts falling off. So while I would never make a chieftain to farm uber pinnacle bosses, I don't really see that as a problem when under half a percent of players ever see that content anyway.

That being said, there is perfectly valid criticism re: totem builds. If you were a totem chieftain enjoyer in the past, that entire archetype is 100% dead. But that really only affects standard league players, because nobody is forcing seasonal players to remake the same build the same way after the class gets reworked.

Yeah people here focusing their expectations rather than understanding what chieftain offers. I want to say chieftain on high budget, do well and the resources I spent was worth it. The way I tried chieftain this league as a farmer. My setup was Wandering path+growing hordes and deli+beyond+harvest+altars for Haunted Mansion. Defensively, char do over 500% phy. damage as elemental maps and can take all altar mods. In HC standards, I able to farm better than most players and easy buy a Mageblood. For farming setup I didn't need offense. Char can blow up 2-3 room at once and proliferate beyond, deli monsters. I also did 30 wave simi. and some bosses. I can see, with some twinks chieftain can farm end game bosses too.

@previous two posts: I get all that and understand....but the Chieftain doesn't exist in a vacuum. You HAVE to compare it to all other options in the game, and you also HAVE to understand its value across the entirety of the game.

It can be fun to play ANY ascendancy. They all have utility at different stages in the game and, if you aren't going for much past completing the "game" (I would rate that as 2 watchstones) you can do that with EVERY ascendancy and basically EVERY skill.

BUT BUT BUT

The chieftain does NOT play well with anything beyond Early - Mid game. Like...nothing. And frankly, it is the only ascendancy where this is the case. The "tankiness" that it offers falls off HARD, right when you start needing it to actually ramp up and not DOWN. Tasalio becomes all but useless once you actually get mid-high tier gear. There simply aren't enough offensive mods on gear to go full offense and single resist, so it is likely items will have at least two high tier resist mods that make capping very easy without the 50% conversion thing. It is ONLY Valako that remains incredibly valuable from beginning to end, and yet on its own the value of increased max resists is muted without ANY OTHER defensive layers being offered. It practically screams at the player to build other marauder classes until you can get melding and then flesh/flame. It's simply not worth building a chieftain JUST so you get access to that node: you give up far too much for that small boost to your defense.

And then there's the total lack of damage options and identity. Totems were slashed out of existence; the fire identity was muted, the BEST damage modifier offered is Ramako but for some reason it is paired with the insufferable and nearly impossible mod "while you are stationary".


So YES: early game Chieftain holds high value as an easy way to get resistances beyond capped. But that steep cliff that it stands on the edge of is simply too much of a drawback to even consider if you have a plan beyond creating a "functional" character. It feels odd to use an entire Ascendancy as a "stepping stone" toward a better version, in every category, of the same character using a different ascendancy. It's not even that its "different", it is strictly and unequivocally BETTER in both damage and defense to run a different ascendancy of the same class once you get beyond mid-tier gear.

Not to necessarily counter your arguments (I've never played Chieftain, and don't have that deep knowledge of the 10,000 different interactions anyway), but this guy in Delve seems to be doing rather well with a Chieftain.

https://poe.ninja/builds/ancestor/character/pyller%C3%B8x/armstackerpylle?i=0&search=type%3Ddepthsolo

The cost of that build is extreme ofc. However, he has delved to a bit over depth 7200. That is nuts! Not the furthest, as those are hidden on poe.ninja, but damn impressive nevertheless.