TOTA would be better with regular game mechanics

instead they cap and limit the players and buff the opposition with 1 shot abilities and larger team sizes with more powers and abilities

GGG needs to make TOTA fun

TOTA would be so much more fun if we could use regular abilities and do regular damage

in it's current state it just makes me angry and hate GGG

Yeah even on my 200 mil Ice Spear build all the mobs are still way too tanky at rank 500 and any white mob oneshots me, its pure insanity that the only way to play at high ranking is cheesing it with Void Sphere/Ice Wall lol

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Toforto wrote:

Yeah even on my 200 mil Ice Spear build all the mobs are still way too tanky at rank 500 and any white mob oneshots me, its pure insanity that the only way to play at high ranking is cheesing it with Void Sphere/Ice Wall lol

I'm around rank 1200 now and don't use either of those. I win 85% of the rounds.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, the point isn't to kill them.
Killing them does nothing.

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Hosshiun wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

Yeah even on my 200 mil Ice Spear build all the mobs are still way too tanky at rank 500 and any white mob oneshots me, its pure insanity that the only way to play at high ranking is cheesing it with Void Sphere/Ice Wall lol

I'm around rank 1200 now and don't use either of those. I win 85% of the rounds.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, the point isn't to kill them.
Killing them does nothing.

Then its horrible design, it punishes people who play the game like the normal game should be played, you know killing monsters? Getting loot from said monsters? The whole point of an arpg?? You cannot defend this mechanic by saying "oh just play this 1 specific way, the devs intended it like this trust me" , no they didn't and it clearly didn't have enough testing or balancing before it was out even when they had 4 months of Crucible to do it.

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Toforto wrote:

Then its horrible design, it punishes people who play the game like the normal game should be played, you know killing monsters? Getting loot from said monsters? The whole point of an arpg?? You cannot defend this mechanic by saying "oh just play this 1 specific way, the devs intended it like this trust me" , no they didn't and it clearly didn't have enough testing or balancing before it was out even when they had 4 months of Crucible to do it.

Eh, it's pretty obvious by the way enemies respawn after about a second. Or even how they don't drop any loot at all. It's not bad design per se, it's just different from what people are used to.

You could argue it doesn't fit in an arpg, but at the same time Blight still exists.

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Hosshiun wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

Yeah even on my 200 mil Ice Spear build all the mobs are still way too tanky at rank 500 and any white mob oneshots me, its pure insanity that the only way to play at high ranking is cheesing it with Void Sphere/Ice Wall lol

I'm around rank 1200 now and don't use either of those.

IMO the relevant part was the "cheesing" part not how exactly you do that.

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Hosshiun wrote:

I win 85% of the rounds.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, the point isn't to kill them.
Killing them does nothing.

But they try to kill you. Its set up like a symmetric game but in its nature at higher ranks its very asymmetric. And all winning strats involve outwitting the very limited AI. While this may be fun for some I dont think it belongs in such a game. It would be much better if the AI would get smarter at higher levels instead of being buffed to uber levels.

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Zrevnur wrote:

IMO the relevant part was the "cheesing" part not how exactly you do that.

Define cheesing? If the enemy team has 2 defenders while I have 4 flankers and rush over to the other side to attract their attention without ever attacking, is that cheesing?

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Zrevnur wrote:

But they try to kill you. Its set up like a symmetric game but in its nature at higher ranks its very asymmetric. And all winning strats involve outwitting the very limited AI. While this may be fun for some I dont think it belongs in such a game. It would be much better if the AI would get smarter at higher levels instead of being buffed to uber levels.

This is fair, but do Exarch or Eater get smarter when you get higher dps? People "cheese" these all the same just by having a billion dps so they don't have to do actual batlle mechanics.

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Hosshiun wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

IMO the relevant part was the "cheesing" part not how exactly you do that.

Define cheesing? If the enemy team has 2 defenders while I have 4 flankers and rush over to the other side to attract their attention without ever attacking, is that cheesing?

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Zrevnur wrote:

But they try to kill you. Its set up like a symmetric game but in its nature at higher ranks its very asymmetric. And all winning strats involve outwitting the very limited AI. While this may be fun for some I dont think it belongs in such a game. It would be much better if the AI would get smarter at higher levels instead of being buffed to uber levels.

This is fair, but do Exarch or Eater get smarter when you get higher dps? People "cheese" these all the same just by having a billion dps so they don't have to do actual batlle mechanics.

In endgame bosses even with shit dps if you do all the mechanics right and dodge everything you can eventually kill them and get rewarded for it, in ToTA white mobs start oneshotting you if you try to play the game like a normal person and just kill them, you are literally forced to win it in the one and only way that its possible and that's why the design is bad and it punishes players for even trying it. Anyone who doesn't play on a specialized character with a 6l void sphere and 0 dps only created to do this content and nothing else, or doesn't use a 4l void sphere setup with max block/evasion/spell suppression is punished. That's not how you design a league mechanic. That's like saying you need an immortal pathfinder build with mageblood to run delve depth 100 content. It is pure insanity. It's especially not how you design it when people can interact with it at lvl2 in the Coast. Glad I ignored it till I was lvl94 lol

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Hosshiun wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

IMO the relevant part was the "cheesing" part not how exactly you do that.

Define cheesing? If the enemy team has 2 defenders while I have 4 flankers and rush over to the other side to attract their attention without ever attacking, is that cheesing?

Whether you call it cheesing or trickery or whatever else. The point here is that you dont directly beat them but in some roundabout manner which they cant do because they are not smart enough. This is kind of one layer further away from the normal "trickery" (dodging their attacks, knowing they will use their big hit only against your position etc) against hard bosses. Here you dont try to even beat them. You do the analogon of poisoning their food supply. The common strategies in TotA bypass the enemies (which scale with rank) themselves. I dont think this is good game design. If the rank only increases those stats and the gameplay revolves around bypassing those stats then IMO there is something off in the design.

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Hosshiun wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

But they try to kill you. Its set up like a symmetric game but in its nature at higher ranks its very asymmetric. And all winning strats involve outwitting the very limited AI. While this may be fun for some I dont think it belongs in such a game. It would be much better if the AI would get smarter at higher levels instead of being buffed to uber levels.

This is fair, but do Exarch or Eater get smarter when you get higher dps? People "cheese" these all the same just by having a billion dps so they don't have to do actual batlle mechanics.

I dont agree with the munchkin powercreep design of the game either. And being able to do significant parts of the game on builds that cant survive I also do not agree with. So from my POV it would be fair to also call this "cheesing".

2k rating, you guys are embarrassing to read. Dps doesn't solve everything and tota isn't meant to be dps'd. Play the mechanic or stick to bossing.