It's time to remove XP loss

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molsn wrote:

Lots of delusional people in here who think getting to level 100 somehow takes skill, when it's simply a patience game.

It used to, which is why opposite to OP I welcome the nerfs to 5 ways. I think exp shouldn't even count in parties past lvl 90 in the current state of the game. I wish they would bring back 100 as a stretch/chase goal.

Build a better character with defenses is such bullshit, what the hell do you think people have been doing for several leagues now? The game forces you to have more defense, & to move unnaturally to get out of harm's way. That said, I've just accepted the fact that I'm never going to get a character past level 98. No game has ever been perfect, & I guess POE never will be either.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

What they want is to be able to progress their level while not giving a shit

No, what they want is not to get punished for things they had no chance to evade:
- Lags from the Server
- Bad game engine performance, including invisible mobs or unexplanable random game freezes when monsters spawn
- Movement skills not working as expected or not firing at all because characters go into odd "stuck" situations.
- Odd modifiers or modifier combinations, including one shot capabilities, unusual range or big area effects

I constantly run the exact same set of content and my build works perfectly fine for more than 99% of the time and i can attribute the absolut majority of my deaths to any combination of the above effects. In most cases when i die i have no clue what happened because iam going from full to dead in split seconds.

The "get more defences" idea doesnt change that. I dont understand why ppl that like the penalty always bring up the argument that ppl would be to lazy for propper builds or only want to run through while completely ignoring all the problematic situations in the game.

Whether you're able to understand or realize it or not doesn't matter, it is a fact that XP loss is a huge (good)part of the game. Removing it would not be a good thing, it changes the meta in a downhill way, removes so much motivation from the game, removes Level 100 being a skillful real goal in the game, it removes the dopamine and relief when you grinded and played well enough to level up when you're in the last 5 or so levels to 100, it removes any and all value that exists in racing to Level 100 or reaching 100.

Leveling to 100 would no longer be a goal, it would just be a question of X time spent, die 5000 times doesn't matter, everyone will 100% of the time get to level 100 now if they just play for X hours.

This would be garbage.

If you're permanently dying every league to the point where the XP loss is a huge problem that means you are doing something majorly wrong that you need to fix yourself, the XP loss is not the sane thing to blame it on.

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Xebov wrote:

- Odd modifiers or modifier combinations, including one shot capabilities, unusual range or big area effects

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Xebov wrote:

The "get more defences" idea doesnt change that. I dont understand why ppl that like the penalty always bring up the argument that ppl would be to lazy for propper builds or only want to run through while completely ignoring all the problematic situations in the game.

Yeah, I wonder why and I really wonder where those modifier combinations and huge AoEs come from. Something like that has to be avoidable, right? There's no way people just aren't reading altars and map affixes.

/S

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Bodomi wrote:

Whether you're able to understand or realize it or not doesn't matter, it is a fact that XP loss is a huge (good)part of the game. Removing it would not be a good thing, it changes the meta in a downhill way, removes so much motivation from the game, removes Level 100 being a skillful real goal in the game, it removes the dopamine and relief when you grinded and played well enough to level up when you're in the last 5 or so levels to 100, it removes any and all value that exists in racing to Level 100 or reaching 100.

Leveling to 100 would no longer be a goal, it would just be a question of X time spent, die 5000 times doesn't matter, everyone will 100% of the time get to level 100 now if they just play for X hours.

This would be garbage.

If you're permanently dying every league to the point where the XP loss is a huge problem that means you are doing something majorly wrong that you need to fix yourself, the XP loss is not the sane thing to blame it on.

Almost all post that are against removing it are about that ppl want to feel special or some odd accomplishment when reaching 100. I dont see any point being made towards actual game issues that turn this into a nightmare and thats all i have to know about the opposite side. And no raching 100 is not an accomplishment, its just pure luck together with the questionable builds that are regularly build.

To shorten this up, no matter how many of these threads open up, this will never change simply because the devs dont care much and it will be likely that we see this as some "next gen" feature in PoE2.

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Scarletsword wrote:

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Xebov wrote:

- Odd modifiers or modifier combinations, including one shot capabilities, unusual range or big area effects

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Xebov wrote:

The "get more defences" idea doesnt change that. I dont understand why ppl that like the penalty always bring up the argument that ppl would be to lazy for propper builds or only want to run through while completely ignoring all the problematic situations in the game.

Yeah, I wonder why and I really wonder where those modifier combinations and huge AoEs come from. Something like that has to be avoidable, right? There's no way people just aren't reading altars and map affixes.

/S

That might just be the explanation why you can see it on modifier free content (aka white maps) too.

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Xebov wrote:

I know fully well that the penalty is not some byproduct but an active design choice. But its a design choice made 10 years ago when the game had no end game and no maps and they needed some hamster wheel to keep players playing. These times are long gone and the game has alot of content in various difficulties. So there is no rebalancing needed on this. Just throw it into the garbage can of history.

By now iam arguing that this design does more harm than good. It creates enough frustration with players to frequently cause threads and discussions about it. It forces players to make a choice between advancing their character or trying content and is also likely causing players to simply quit.

To speak for myself, this design choice is the only reason i always quit the game after some time. Knowing that no matter how well i build a character iam always at odds with terrible design, bad luck and tech difficulties of the game and being penalized for simply stumbling into them.

this is exactly what i want to say.

and also NO penalty to experience gained if the player is too far above or below the monster's level. Either or both!

Since this thread came back i thought I wild as my voice.

Just remove the xp penalty. It didn't do anything but drive players out. I guess it helps the siftcore ladder. News flash, almost no one cares or has ever cared about the ladder in an arpg.

It didn't teach anything, it doesn't make players build differently.

The game doesn't tell you what is dealing damage and how much.

All we have is a pob or stat sheet that says you have % damage reduced or evaded. Real interactive(sarcasm). If those sources can be trusted anyway.

Maybe if defenses were more interesting I could defend a death penatly, but it's just a dick move in a series of dumb design decisions that have lingered in This game for awhile.

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Xebov wrote:

I know fully well that the penalty is not some byproduct but an active design choice. But its a design choice made 10 years ago when the game had no end game and no maps and they needed some hamster wheel to keep players playing. These times are long gone and the game has alot of content in various difficulties. So there is no rebalancing needed on this. Just throw it into the garbage can of history.

By now iam arguing that this design does more harm than good. It creates enough frustration with players to frequently cause threads and discussions about it. It forces players to make a choice between advancing their character or trying content and is also likely causing players to simply quit.

To speak for myself, this design choice is the only reason i always quit the game after some time. Knowing that no matter how well i build a character iam always at odds with terrible design, bad luck and tech difficulties of the game and being penalized for simply stumbling into them.

You're presenting a false dichotomy here. Those aren't your only two choices, you have plenty of other choices. The ones you aren't acknowledging are the ones they are trying to funnel you toward. Improve your character, or roll an alt more suited to the content you want to do. And ironically you've presented another option right there but you don't even see it as a valid option, you see it as a symptom.

You can quit. You can say 'I maxed out my character (you'd be wrong, but you know, maxed out your character to the point that you found pursuing more upgrades less fun than playing something else), now I'm done.' That's a valid choice.

So those are your real choices.

Play hard content for great exp, but risk dying.
Do easy content but level slower.
Get better at piloting your build so you can do the good exp content but not die.
Improve your character so you can do the hard content for great exp without dying.
Roll an alt to do the same as above.
Accept that you've hit your character's (as currently constructed) level max and keep playing.
Accept that you've hit your character's level max and quit.

Or the worst one of the bunch imo, despicable in every way