>Increasing chaos damage affects poison damage created by physical damage?

inc phys damage will increase the phys portion of the base damage, thus increasing poison damage

if your poison damage comes from a hit that deals only chaos damage, inc phys damage wont do anything, unless that chaos damage was converted from phys damage

increased chaos damage will increase all poison damage, regardless of its source, but won't double dip

most poison builds dont scale phys damage though, as they're usually using stuff like pneumatic dagger or alternate quality spark

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Poison

just read this.

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Vennto wrote:

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Poison

just read this.

I did~ the wiki is not specific regarding which modifiers affect poison besides being brought by the calculation of the hit. Like, phsyical daamge will modify the damage. But on the hit.
Old posts say that %+physical will aply to both ailment and the hit damage.
But above and in other places there are people saying otherwise.
There's no conscistence.
In this same post I got two different answers.

As to answer the question of the thread: Yes. Increased chaos damage always affects the poison damage in full regardless of source damage, because poison itself is 100% chaos damage.


Poison is complicated, the wiki page tries to simplify things but fails imo. Here are some examples to hopefully sketch a better picture:

Let's say your character has 100% increased global physical damage, 100% increased global chaos damage, 100% increased global fire damage and 100% poison chance. No other modifiers.

- The base damage of the hit is 20 chaos. This means your base poison dot is 6 chaos dps. Only your %chaos applies. Your hit deals 40 chaos damage, your poison is 12 chaos dps.

- The base damage of the hit is 20 phys. Your base poison dot is 6 chaos dps. your %chaos only applies to the poison. Your %phys applies to the hit. It also applies to the poison because it was applied by the physical hit. Your hit deals 40 phys damage, your poison is 18 chaos dps.

- The base damage of the hit is 10 phys and 10 chaos. Your base poison dot is 6 chaos dps. Your %chaos applies to the chaos portion of the hit, as well as the full poison damage. Your %phys applies to the physical portion of the hit, as well as to the part of the poison applied by the physical portion of the hit(3 out of 6 poison dps is applied by the physical portion). Your hit deals 20 phys and 20 chaos. Your poison is 15 chaos dps.

Conversion time!

- the base damage of the hit is 20 physical. You convert 50% of this damage to chaos damage. Your base poison dot is 6 chaos dps. Your %chaos damage applies to the full poison as well as the chaos portion of your hit. Your %phys applies to your full hit as well as the full poison due to conversion rules (100% of the poison is applied by a physical hit which due to conversion is also treated as 50% chaos). Your hit deals 20 physical and 30 chaos damage. Your poison deals 18 chaos dps.

Last one.

- The base damage of the hit is 20 physical. You convert 100% of this damage to fire. You have a modifier that allows your fire damage to poison. Your base poison dps is 6 chaos dps. Your %chaos applies to the poison only. Your %phys applies to both the poison and the hit due to damage conversion rules. Your %fire applies to both the hit and the poison damage because it was applied by 100% fire hit. Your hit deals 60 fire damage. Your poison deals 24 chaos dps.


In a lot of ways poison can be calculated best by treating it as a conversion step: 30% of applicable damage types damage is applied as chaos dps. Not sure if that helps but hey, as I said; poison is complicated.

Main thing to understand is that hit damage and dot damage are completely different calculations. They both start at base hit damage, which is the sum of the base damage of the skill, your weapon's damage (if it is a weapon skill) and any added/converted damage. After that they have no connection to each other.

EDIT: to clarify, under these rules there is never any case of double dipping. % increased chaos damage applies seperately to the hit and the dot.

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Bardharr wrote:

As to answer the question of the thread: Yes. Increased chaos damage always affects the poison damage in full regardless of source damage, because poison itself is 100% chaos damage. (...)

EDIT: to clarify, under these rules there is never any case of double dipping. % increased chaos damage applies seperately to the hit and the dot.

Thanks brother. The examples helped a lot ^^
You're great <3
I'm happy the ring works :)

This thread has me confused....and I thought I knew how poison worked...


You all are saying that there is no "double dipping"...but:

If I have 100% increased chaos damage, that would apply to the base hit AND the poison damage itself. Which means I get more poison from the initial hit, plus the poison itself is being increased. Is that NOT double dipping?

I get that the increased chaos damage, as it applies directly to the poison, does NOT increase based on the extra contribution from the larger hit source, but in my opinion this is still double dipping as that 1 mod is increasing your poison damage twice, albeit from two different sources.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Which means I get more poison from the initial hit, plus the poison itself is being increased. Is that NOT double dipping?

I get that the increased chaos damage, as it applies directly to the poison, does NOT increase based on the extra contribution from the larger hit source, but in my opinion this is still double dipping as that 1 mod is increasing your poison damage twice, albeit from two different sources.

While it is increasing both the hit damage and the dot damage, it is not double dipping because it isn't applied more than once to any instance of damage.

Before version 3.0, ignites and poisons were based off the final damage of the hit, while also having damage modifiers applied to them. Back then, 100% increased damage would apply to the hit, making the base damage of the poison stronger, then apply again to the poison. Hence the term double dipping--damage modifiers applied to dots twice. 100% increased damage meant 100% increased hit damage and 300% increased dot damage.



Look at Barkharr's first example: one hit with 100% increased damage would deal as much damage as two hits without the damage modifier. If you were double dipping on the damage modifier, it would take more than two hits without the modifier to deal as much damage as one hit with the modifier.

Yes thanks, I understood the examples and that's how I know it to work...I was just wrong on the definiton of "double dipping"

I honestly still feel like its "double dipping" as it increases the poison damage twice from one mod, but just not as effectively as the pre-3.0 version of double dipping. But I do understand how the mechanic works.

Now I can sleep tight for a while :P
Thank you Mark.