Snowforged - Last Epoch Would Have Done it Better, GGG

I don't think "and/or" is ambiguous. However, I do think that "or" suffices.

Ironically OP is actually making the statement more unclear by leaving out a word. It says "have -5% to Elemental Resistances", but their wording is "have -5% Elemental Resistances" which makes it sound like it could be interpreted as overriding every other increase/decrease to resists to set it at a static -5% value.

Current wording is fine I think, you have to get very specific or rewrite the sentence entirely to gain more clarity.

This is just the pitfall of having complicated mechanics and relying on a slippery bitch like English to handle them. It's been GGG's bane since, well, beta really. Increased/more are synonyms in everyday English -- only an Exile would see those two words and immediately think 'one is multiplicative and one is additive'. But eh, it works now because it's not like you have much choice but to learn how to play by PoE's weirdly precise and weirdly arbitrary language.

In this case, the 'either' proposed is honestly no clearer to me than the 'or' -- you either understand it's either/or (but not both) OR you assume either condition can be met independently. Here's one example of the wording you'd need to be 100% unambiguous:

Enemies ignited or chilled by you have -5% elemental resistances, to a maximum of -5% as a result of this condition.

This way you have your two conditions set, the effect of meeting either of them, the fact that they don't stack, and (this one really bothered me) the clarification that the maximum of -5% is for this condition and not overall. And even then it doesn't really make clear what 'by you' means. You? Your turrets sorry totems? Minions? Etc.

And now you see why MTG and most other games switched to either keywords or symbols for effects long ago. GGG shot themselves in so many feet when they failed to do that early because oh boy translating this game is a trip (I know at least one person here has tried, and he got stuck on something as seemingly harmless as a monster name). On top of that, English is way too flexible for something as rigid as ARPG mechanics -- the temptation to make frankly pointless mechanics just because you can describe them in English (or any human language really) is far too high. Even something as verbally driven as Dungeons and Dragons had to put a limit on the potency of its players' verbal creativity.

Not to say PoE doesn't have keywords of its own -- of course it does. A fucking heap. Onslaught's a good one, and we have one of the simplest and most effective league gimmicks to thank for that. But it only uses them when the mechanic is simple and common enough to be reduced to one word. I created Nonslaught for my final item because I wanted it to stack with onslaught, but had to drag each damn condition out because Nonslaught is really silly. :)

So in this case, IF a set of conditions could reduce an enemy's max elemental resistance often enough, you could create and use a keyword. Fuck, for all I know there already is one.

But yeah, GGG's inability or lack of desire to embrace some sort of shorthand as a totality has resulted in quite a few linguistic fumbles. This isn't really one of them, but the OP is correct in interpreting the existing description as a possible double dip. Exile experience says otherwise, but purely from a native speaking English perspective, it is not wrong. Just quite unlikely.

This is why we have proofreaders and whatnot -- because you never know when someone will read something quite differently to what you think you've written.

That said, it's a pretty clear description in Exilean (yeah that's a fucking word now, deal with it).

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

That said, it's a pretty clear description in Exilean (yeah that's a fucking word now, deal with it).

Might be the best bit of lexicon you've added, I support the motion to make Exilean the offical language of Wraeclast.

Also jumping on the dog pile that Snowforged is clear enough, insofar as each other version that is not very verbose is a more easily confused version.

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BearCares wrote:

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Sarno wrote:

You have made it worse.

The slash introduces ambiguity. One could misconstrue whether inflicting both ailments results in -5% or -10% resistances. I have a particular dislike for when slashes are used in this way for that reason.

No, it's not ambiguous at all unless you choose not to acknowledge that both "and" and "or" are literally written right there for you to see.

No; actually, those are why it's a problem. You know but you haven't bothered to explain whether they can both apply and you don't get points for understanding your own message - you knew what you wanted to say before you started to decide on the phrasing.

It wouldn't be my first interpretation, but I do think it's imprecise and this strikes me as being exactly the kind of language use which can vary among different regions and cultures. I wouldn't take it for granted that everyone would interpret your version the way that I happen to.

I think 'or' is fine. Your first suggestion ('either') didn't strike me as being an improvement, but it was perhaps workable. 'and/or' is, frankly, lazy and I don't think it would be interpreted the same way in every country; it strikes me as being the only clear non-runner in the conversation.

Words allow for more precision than mere punctuation; don't rely on the latter as a crutch.

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Northern_Ronin wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

That said, it's a pretty clear description in Exilean (yeah that's a fucking word now, deal with it).

Might be the best bit of lexicon you've added, I support the motion to make Exilean the offical language of Wraeclast.

Also jumping on the dog pile that Snowforged is clear enough, insofar as each other version that is not very verbose is a more easily confused version.

So I was clearly drawing on the precedent of Chile --> Chilean but that now means we have to pronounce Exile as Exil-ay. Cool with that if y'all are.



I think Skilldrasil remains my most enduring bit of Exilean slang but Skillgrimage (where a player skips starter power nodes to rush a particular keystone or cluster farther away) found favour with Chris Himself so I can't overlook that one either.

The unintentional pun of "OG" is my favourite though. You are what you hunt.