Damage over Time Need a buff !!

"

Xzorn wrote:

DoTs take more time and more investment to come close to front-end Elemental. You have players with high play time characters defending DoTs because they can get 30-45mil out of them. Then you have players like me who literally played 8 days this league with 25mil saying they kinda suck.

There is also people who can't break the 5 mil, front end or not who will have much better chances at doing endgame using dots compared to front end. 25 mio front end dps is nice because you can quickly dispatch pinnacle bosses so having to stand still isn't that much of an issue. If your dps is low dots are better because of uptime. If you try ubers with just 20 mio dps you'll probably wish it was a dot because you'll have a hard time attacking at all.

Front end is great if your dps is high enough to trivialize the content you run. The moment your dps falls short of that you are better off running dots even if they have lower damage in POB.

bleed is just terrible. tried playing some bleed slayer and since i could fit impale i did - turns out my impale dps is twice as my bleeds. crimson dance gives me whopping 13% dps increase... elder mod was just a cheap fix, but then again those weapons are pretty hard to craft esp with harvest out. they should just double the dps or remove the penalty from crimson dance i guess.

poison is terrible for mapping if its not high end investment. cant see any problem with poisons dealing dmg twice as fast. got this pathfinder with echoforge and viper strike that just struggles so hard in maps. first of all since the poison dps is not instant it gives time mobs to retaliate. second the ascendancy that gives aoe is not good at all and i still have to use ancestral call. third the flask nerfs hurt too much if youre not using shield.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

"

Xzorn wrote:

DoTs take more time and more investment to come close to front-end Elemental. You have players with high play time characters defending DoTs because they can get 30-45mil out of them. Then you have players like me who literally played 8 days this league with 25mil saying they kinda suck.

There is also people who can't break the 5 mil, front end or not who will have much better chances at doing endgame using dots compared to front end. 25 mio front end dps is nice because you can quickly dispatch pinnacle bosses so having to stand still isn't that much of an issue. If your dps is low dots are better because of uptime. If you try ubers with just 20 mio dps you'll probably wish it was a dot because you'll have a hard time attacking at all.

Front end is great if your dps is high enough to trivialize the content you run. The moment your dps falls short of that you are better off running dots even if they have lower damage in POB.

yeah im inclined to agree with this tbh.


dots are like totems or minions, if their damage is even semi comparable to self spamming skills its very problematic because the nature of the playstyle has so many advantages.



this is why i think its often wrong to look at self applied poison in the same way as a lot of these dot skills because its essentially like a hit build. if you got a cold conversion blade vortex that deals direct damage or you have a poison blade vortex that applies dots, you still have to sit on the monster hitting it with ur spell in the same way. if anything the poison would need a bit more damage to be as effective because of the stack ramp of both poisons and withers. poison can do a lots of damage compared to a lot of the ignite or other chaos dot options but i think this is correct because it should be treated like direct damage, maybe even seen as a slightly inferior direct damage due to the ramp.


so poison being strong like a direct damage source? yes, good, thats where it should be and if it falls short it needs brought back up. other dots with set and forget type playstyles? imo they need to have second class damage numbers, so u got to be really careful when coming in and buffing skills like this in a game where something like melee has been getting worse and worse for so long and totems/minions are constantly threatening to push self cast spells out of the meta and have been since spork totems in open beta.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

"

Xzorn wrote:

DoTs take more time and more investment to come close to front-end Elemental. You have players with high play time characters defending DoTs because they can get 30-45mil out of them. Then you have players like me who literally played 8 days this league with 25mil saying they kinda suck.

There is also people who can't break the 5 mil, front end or not who will have much better chances at doing endgame using dots compared to front end. 25 mio front end dps is nice because you can quickly dispatch pinnacle bosses so having to stand still isn't that much of an issue. If your dps is low dots are better because of uptime. If you try ubers with just 20 mio dps you'll probably wish it was a dot because you'll have a hard time attacking at all.

Front end is great if your dps is high enough to trivialize the content you run. The moment your dps falls short of that you are better off running dots even if they have lower damage in POB.

That tends to be an overall flaw of game design over time. IMO Ubers shouldn't exist. Giving a boss magic 70% DR for the sake they can't balance player damage output is idiotic to me.

Along with that they play further into the debilitating movement speed crutch the game now suffers. I blacklisted melee despite being a 2/3 melee player for 3 league now due to these conditions. Movement in maps is just free avoidance while movement against bosses makes them easier.

This of course is also a perk of DoT builds and why I understand they should do less damage as result of up-time and maneuverability. What I tend to see is the difference with just moderate play. I play this game to make builds so sitting on a character for long periods or using chase items isn't generally on my list. In contrast if a boss takes x3 longer to kill that's 3x chance of a mistake.

If a player goes far beyond necessary damage ie Ubers, doing 50mil Front-end vs 30mil DoT then of course the perks of DoTs will outweigh the extra damage difference. The game caters to not stopping and speed so you're doubling down on two very strong perks.

"

Xzorn wrote:

"

TrunksD2 wrote:

So, I play CA in standard for quite a long time and therefore I feel that I am able to give my opinion about it.

Sarcasm or not this is actually what a lot of the debate comes down to on this topic.

DoTs take more time and more investment to come close to front-end Elemental. You have players with high play time characters defending DoTs because they can get 30-45mil out of them. Then you have players like me who literally played 8 days this league with 25mil saying they kinda suck.

There are also difference in the delivery method which drastically changes performance. Poison being the obvious however the others are subject to the same issues and Bleed being primarily a weapon based delivery method has most agreed upon as weak helping to showcase this.

Instead of a debate over the functionality of these damage types it's instead a debate over the skill delivery method of them. Poison DoT caps with these 5 skills so that means Cobra Lash is fine. EK double covert Ignite is fine so that means Burning Arrow is fine. I use Cobra Lash & Burning Arrow as example because these are very obviously supposed to favor the damage type yet fall short.

You are right. I really have put a lot of currency on this build. A lot. But I think I wasn't clear in my point.

My point was that even with that much investment and knowledge (sort to say) about CA I still can't handle properly big monsters with extra chaos resist. If a monster goes up to 125 chaos resist, -50 makes no difference at all since it only reaches the capped resist. That is why Original Sin will be mandatory to all Chaos DoT, when I think it should be other ways to go around.


It is not the same when we talk about elemental DoT where we can double curse, apply exposure and scorsh, cover in ashes and give -12 from helmet and -6 from belt enchant. But I do not have the same expertise on this kind of dot build to see if it shines or not.

"

TrunksD2 wrote:

You are right. I really have put a lot of currency on this build. A lot. But I think I wasn't clear in my point.

My point was that even with that much investment and knowledge (sort to say) about CA I still can't handle properly big monsters with extra chaos resist. If a monster goes up to 125 chaos resist, -50 makes no difference at all since it only reaches the capped resist. That is why Original Sin will be mandatory to all Chaos DoT, when I think it should be other ways to go around.


It is not the same when we talk about elemental DoT where we can double curse, apply exposure and scorsh, cover in ashes and give -12 from helmet and -6 from belt enchant. But I do not have the same expertise on this kind of dot build to see if it shines or not.

I wasn't aware of a modifier to give enemies that high of Chaos Resists but I've also not played a Chaos build in a while. Given how Chaos damage has evolved, I'm not surprised though.

It used to be a fairly special damage type but now it plays out as just another element. I'm certain HP regen buffs were a direct result of this since ES did this roll perfectly. I would say even better.

The various reductions are exactly why pure physical is in dumpster fire territory. I still find it incredibly redundant to have multiple versions of something for the same result. ie Elemental Pen, Exposure, Reduce Resistances and Scorch. The interactions vary but it's still quite silly.