General Discussion - An honest thread about the option for *Offline only, LAN client* and acceptable price for it. - Forum

Worst part of online games, hacking. Anything that stops those idiots destroying this game gets my vote. Yeah no, I have no keys left. Sorry to disappoint.	Posted by soldierboy#5805 on May 28, 2012, 2:13:50 AM Quote this Post
" tpapp157 wrote: One of the major reasons offline play isn't supported is for security. Giving people access to an offline client allows them to see how the PoE servers function. Offline clients open the door to potential hacks and dupes that simply wouldn't be possible otherwise. Given GGG's goal of creating a long term viable and secure economy that supports fair pvp, offline clients are out of the question. Yep, sums it up pretty nicely IMO. Invited to Beta 2012-03-18 / Supporter since 2012-04-08	Posted by VideoGeemer#0418 on May 28, 2012, 2:43:07 AM Quote this Post
" WhiteBoy88 wrote: It's not personal; it's about the security and longevity of the game and GGG's financial success. " Mark_GGG wrote: Guys, tppap had this right in the first page. why have security in the offline client at all?... if there is an offline version people are going to want to make trainers and item editors and make all kinds of changes to it. they will eventually hack threw the security and make the changes they want so why bother? it isn't like you will be using the offline version to connect to the server and with no security in the offline version you don't risk revealing server security. We can't solve problems we can't talk about...	Posted by KiaKun#3561 on May 28, 2012, 5:46:39 AM Quote this Post
I think you're missing the point, KiaKun. Most of the game's functions are handled on the server. This is what makes the game more secure than a game that handles similar functions on the client. In order to play the game without connecting to a server, the client would have to handle these functions itself, meaning said client would have to include the server code. It's not about keeping an offline version secure; it's about keeping the online version secure. Giving the server code out in an offline version allows people to hack it and apply those hacks to the online version. Closed Beta/Alpha Tester back after a 10-year hiatus. First in the credits!	Posted by WhiteBoy#6717 on May 28, 2012, 10:36:08 AM Alpha Member Quote this Post
" Mark_GGG wrote: Guys, tppap had this right in the first page. " tpapp157 wrote: One of the major reasons offline play isn't supported is for security. Giving people access to an offline client allows them to see how the PoE servers function. Offline clients open the door to potential hacks and dupes that simply wouldn't be possible otherwise. Given GGG's goal of creating a long term viable and secure economy that supports fair pvp, offline clients are out of the question. This is not a matter of money. It's not a matter of whether there's a market, or whether the offline version would generate enough extra income to justify the expense it would cost (although smart money's on "no" for that one). It's a matter of security. If we make an offline game, then you're running all the server-side stuff locally. That means anyone with the offline version can get at all inner workings of the server and work out how to dupe, exploit and otherwise break it, and then apply that to the online servers. The fact it's an online game, and our servers are only our servers, which we control, is the reason we're able to keep the game as secure and as we are for all our online players. It's not about what an offline version would cost us. It's about what it would cost our players. Players who (hopefully) pay us money, and enjoy playing the game for a long time, because we can provide them with secure servers and a robust, dupe-free economy. Which becomes much, much harder if the server code is available to everyone to crew with in the form of an offline version. Wow, that actually explains a lot. Explains why Diablo 2 is hacked way more than most online games, and why Diablo 3 has no single player.	Posted by Silty#2454 on May 28, 2012, 1:10:20 PM Quote this Post
" WhiteBoy88 wrote: Most of the game's functions are handled on the server. This is what makes the game more secure than a game that handles similar functions on the client. In order to play the game without connecting to a server, the client would have to handle these functions itself, meaning said client would have to include the server code. oh right that actually makes more sense... i was thinking just the security part of the server. @ Silty actually D2 isn't the most hacked game >.< RoM is just one of the games that is more hacked. and i don't think security is why Bliz made D3 online only... they have already been hacked. >.> i think it has more to do with trying to make the game less pirated so more people will buy the 60$ CD. all they really have done is make it so you cant make an ISO of the disk and play off it. We can't solve problems we can't talk about...	Posted by KiaKun#3561 on May 28, 2012, 5:43:57 PM Quote this Post
" Mark_GGG wrote: Guys, tppap had this right in the If we make an offline game, then you're running all the server-side stuff locally. That means anyone with the offline version can get at all inner workings of the server and work out how to dupe, exploit and otherwise break it, and then apply that to the online servers. Even if people memory edit their client locally or write function hooks, how exactly would that interfere with private functions on GGG's server? Unless the POE client does a lot more client-side than it should be doing, such as generating loot drops. If that is the case, then it is only a matter of time before people start hooking game functions, offline client or not. IGN: Guillotine - Shadow - Open Beta Bawss - 73 Witch - Closed Beta	Posted by tzaro#2485 on May 28, 2012, 6:40:12 PM Quote this Post
" tzaro wrote: " Mark_GGG wrote: Guys, tppap had this right in the If we make an offline game, then you're running all the server-side stuff locally. That means anyone with the offline version can get at all inner workings of the server and work out how to dupe, exploit and otherwise break it, and then apply that to the online servers. Even if people memory edit their client locally or write function hooks, how exactly would that interfere with private functions on GGG's server? Unless the POE client does a lot more client-side than it should be doing, such as generating loot drops. If that is the case, then it is only a matter of time before people start hooking game functions, offline client or not. That's exactly the point. The game client DOESN'T do those things. And offline version would have to do those things locally, by definition, because you wouldn't be connecting to a remote server that does those things for you. An offline version of the game would need to be able to do all the things the servers do, because you wouldn't be connecting to the servers to get them done. At which point the offline version would mean people had access to (most of) the server code, and could do what they want with it, then apply what they've learned to the online servers.	Posted by Mark_GGG on May 28, 2012, 7:03:08 PM Grinding Gear Games Quote this Post
I know first hand how much more devastation you can cause by having the server code than if you don't. Without server functionality you are just guessing what might be vulnerable, but if you have the code, it's vastly easier to find message handlers that are buggy in very particular ways, that would never have been found if they didn't have the code. Running simulations on the offline codebase also allows you to circumvent pattern recognition and account hack flagging. You perfect your method and then execute on the live server. It's all around a bad idea if your game model is centered around multiplayer security. If you have account problems please [url="http://www.pathofexile.com/support"]Email Support[/url]	Posted by zeto#6003 on May 28, 2012, 8:20:37 PM Alpha Member Quote this Post
PoE for LAN ++++++1million! If PoE had LAN, I'd honestly probably play the game quite a lot more. :) Just please, if you make PoE LAN - allow a Drop in and out system. (Like Diablo), where you can go away, level your character, and join back to the same, or even another server. I say this because Sacred didn't allow for the option. :S Another thing I would really appreciate is the quests aren't judged by the host. For example, in Diablo II (At least with me); the quests where governed available if the host had not yet completed them. I found this annoying, especially if I jumped ahead at home, than realized my girlfriend and her brother hadn't completed the quests I've done. Just a thought. :) As for price, I think Torchlight aimed for the $20 mark, but I'll gladly pay $20 - $60 if it was in retail. Not only that, it feels as if I'm supporting GGG more, and they're helping me by handing over a boxed version. :D "If a theory cannot be explained to a child. Then the theory, is probably worthless." - Einstein	Posted by Nemesiidae#5833 on May 28, 2012, 8:25:06 PM Quote this Post