please change combat focux damage nerf to wild strike.

hello.


this is about combat focus interaction with wild strike so it is not about my current char. but about me trying to pob a char and failing to use combat focus in any possible way.

here is the deal, combat focus jewels have the modifiers "less damage of x element"

now elemental hit, as we know can convert all damage to fire. and it is completely op if you do so without the 50% less penalty on combat focus jewels.

but why is wild strike included in this penalty?

i mean if i want to pick only fire it does not mean i don't want to have hatred. and if i want to pick only cold it does not mean i don't want herald of ash and picking a single element for wild strike i actually a nerf to dps to begin with because we lose jewel sockets and gain nothing other than choosing the interaction we like.

i think combat focus less damage dealt should be integrated into elemental hit only. or should stay in the jewel and be specified for elemental hit only.



just to clarify, the scenarios i have in mind is as follows:


1- phys conversion wild strike fire, hatred would be a nice addition for either base crit or brittle for example. combat foucs will nerf hatred damage though.

2- phys conversion wild strike cold, herald of ash would be a nice addition considering we need some more aoe. but combat focus nerfs the damage in this case too.

3, wild strike with elemental weapon "triple ele mods" combat focus nerfs the damage as well.

4, wild strike physical weapon with x% as extra of random element "like elemental mastery or voidforge or even doomfletch". combat focus is a nerf to wild strike too.

5, of x elemental/ physical as EXTR chaos/element. examples: cold to fire, heatshiver, taste of hate, atziri's promise and a few more unique helmtts/body armours as well as some rare item mods.



there are many other examples, but all will fall under the previous 4 points.

thank you for reading -.^

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I feel it’s entirely appropriate that taking the Wild out of Wild Strike comes with a penalty. If anything it’s pretty generous, honestly, that it only cuts the damage by half, since it’s the element you’ve elected to avoid anyway.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I feel it’s entirely appropriate that taking the Wild out of Wild Strike comes with a penalty. If anything it’s pretty generous, honestly, that it only cuts the damage by half, since it’s the element you’ve elected to avoid anyway.

appropriate based on what logic? does picking one element buff the skill like it does with elemental hit "which was the original reason for the less damage modifier"?

picking an element is already nerfing the skill without the 50% less for many reasons such as:

1-trinity will not work if you pick 1 element only.
2- you take 2 jewel sockets which can amount to 80% crit multi or more.
3- you reduce the number of ailments you can inflict.

the less modifiers is justified for elemental hit because picking one element can triple your dps without it, it's not the case with wild strike.

so for it to be appropriate you either need ot change wild so that it can benefit from picking one element. or remove the the downside which is only adding to many other downsides that it already gets by picking an element.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I feel it’s entirely appropriate that taking the Wild out of Wild Strike comes with a penalty. If anything it’s pretty generous, honestly, that it only cuts the damage by half, since it’s the element you’ve elected to avoid anyway.

Appropriate based on your personal logic, or appropriate based on your understanding of game/endgame balance?

You're not really gaining anything with Wild Strike even without the damage nerf.

Many of those skill based gems were DOA.

Its really an issue of the fact that its a melee skill, you have to find out gimmicks or scaling options or build enabling uniques that aren't related to the gem, unless theres an alt quality and you have ashes of the stars. Its just the reality of things.

With the gutting of nightblade youre kind of stuck stacking strength for anything melee or having special items. Just playing the game with a melee skill without extensive knowledge of the game is pointless.

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zaarakiekenpachi wrote:

appropriate based on what logic? does picking one element buff the skill like it does with elemental hit "which was the original reason for the less damage modifier"?

picking an element is already nerfing the skill without the 50% less for many reasons such as:

1-trinity will not work if you pick 1 element only.
2- you take 2 jewel sockets which can amount to 80% crit multi or more.
3- you reduce the number of ailments you can inflict.

the less modifiers is justified for elemental hit because picking one element can triple your dps without it, it's not the case with wild strike.

so for it to be appropriate you either need ot change wild so that it can benefit from picking one element. or remove the the downside which is only adding to many other downsides that it already gets by picking an element.

To be clear: my position is quite specifically that using Combat Focus on Wild Strike should be suboptimal. Not equal: actively worse, at least in most cases and without significant investment and build focus. You might think that's not 'balanced' but I disagree, it's just balance based on things other than just numbers. It's balance based also on object identity and theme.

For better or worse, the nature of this genre is that by default, specialisation into just doing one type of thing is rewarded. There are many many other skills you can use if you want to hit things with just fire, just cold or just lightning (and add in Hatred or Herald of Ash or whatever without penalty!). Wild Strike exists specifically to defy that approach - it says "look, not only am I not going to just convert your damage to just one element you can focus on, I'm not even going to tell you which one is coming!". To have people then want to take that and drag it back into the norm is understandable (because that's what the game trains people to do) but it absolutely deserves to come with a penalty to acknowledge that the skill isn't Tame Strike, it went to the trouble of pushing outside the norm in the first place.

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Phrazz wrote:

Appropriate based on your personal logic, or appropriate based on your understanding of game/endgame balance?

Everyone's posts about how they'd like the game to be are based on their "personal logic". There is no correct answer. We all have an "understanding of game balance", but yours won't be the same as mine because our personal priorities and ideas about the game are different. So the answer to your question, am I saying it's appropriate based on my personal logic, or based on my understanding of game balance, is "yes".

I don't think things like 'Combat Focus nerfs Hatred damage if I get rid of cold' are problems. It's called Combat Focus because you're focusing on something; if you want broader damage type availability instead, to get the full benefit of a Herald or a "% added as element" mod or whatever, don't use it! That's okay! If the game can manage to include Avatar of Fire, it can handle Combat Focus.

And I really think that considering something a balance problem if it doesn't let your melee skill use X addon effectively is actually a wider, separate issue. No melee attack skill should require that X in order to be viable!

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Everyone's posts about how they'd like the game to be are based on their "personal logic". There is no correct answer. We all have an "understanding of game balance", but yours won't be the same as mine because our personal priorities and ideas about the game are different. So the answer to your question, am I saying it's appropriate based on my personal logic, or based on my understanding of game balance, is "yes".

I don't think things like 'Combat Focus nerfs Hatred damage if I get rid of cold' are problems. It's called Combat Focus because you're focusing on something; if you want broader damage type availability instead, to get the full benefit of a Herald or a "% added as element" mod or whatever, don't use it! That's okay! If the game can manage to include Avatar of Fire, it can handle Combat Focus.

That's a decent answer, and it made your point of view somewhat clearer.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

And I really think that considering something a balance problem if it doesn't let your melee skill use X addon effectively is actually a wider, separate issue. No melee attack skill should require that X in order to be viable!

The thing is, though: That "wider, separate issue" has been an issue for God knows how long, and people just want a bone. A carrot. Something to make weapon-scaling melee builds to scale better. Removing the less multiplier on Combat Focus would help to do just that on Wild Strike, but I do agree that it would be a strange move thematically, and that it wouldn't really fix the "issue" for melee as a whole.