Game feels dull and boring, here's a list of reasons why I quit sanctum today

I should add that obviously map layout is a factor as well.

Everyone hates newer maps yet they're some of the better in looks and theme.
Instead we want to run straight a down basic beach and end? Why? Because the game tells us more than 5 min in a map is a bad thing. Maps being "reasonably" similar in scope also narrows the spectrum reduces this ugly need to spam.

"

Xzorn wrote:

I should add that obviously map layout is a factor as well.

Everyone hates newer maps yet they're some of the better in looks and theme.
Instead we want to run straight a down basic beach and end? Why? Because the game tells us more than 5 min in a map is a bad thing. Maps being "reasonably" similar in scope also narrows the spectrum reduces this ugly need to spam.

On the flip side, some of the newer maps really do have questionable elements that don't really have much reason being there
- Three stages on a very weak boss in Pier and traps between that add nothing to the encounter. Dunno how much sense labyrinth traps are making in the first place, you know, it isn't a dungeon, it was a place where a lot of people and goods circulate
- Laboratory has a really annoying layout where you want to go for each of the four switches and then maybe cover the parts in between but there aren't too many monsters there so you probably won't bother
- The door levers in Frozen Cabins are doing absolutely nothing, not for gameplay or visual design
- Ivory Temple layout was probably sketched out during a wild barbecue party, on a piece of napkin, with wine, a lot of wine
- The benches in Crimson Township boss room would be a pretty nice touch if they didn't put that kind of boss in there

I don't mind something like Racecourse or the cages in Pit, despite the delays and backtracking, because that's what it should look like, and that's good.
In the end, this is a grinding game, it doesn't really feature puzzles and exploration. It doesn't reward you for finding a secret room with a treasure chest saying 'beware of the alligator', so it doesn't have to do anything too complex with map layouts, it just has to look nice.

"

Xzorn wrote:

I have to ask though. Would this be as much problem if movement speed and mobility were more normalized? This is just one branch in a tree of issues however if players can only move a certain rate then enemies can be based on that rate as well. Enemies won't need random +400% speed.

The difference between those who spam and those who simply play is a smaller spectrum and at the same time effort is rewarded equally so that is also a smaller spectrum. The game shifts more towards "What should I do with my time" rather than "This is the optimal use of my time".

No nothing would change.
This isnt a matter of speed or builds or anything like that.
It comes down to the mindset of individual players and what they enjoy/fear the most.

Even if GGG was able to slow players down by 50% without causing a riot (think of patch 3.15), it wouldnt change the mindset of anybody at all - just the tools available to achieve their goals would change.


Even in Ruthless, which doesnt even offer moveskills to begin with, nothing could stop players from equipping 4-5 Quicksilvers and doing the exact same thing, just at slower pace.

The result would be the same.
The min/maxing crowd would still yield exponentially better results, which is precisely why they are min/maxing and the rest would complain about the fact that they not only yield worse results but also feel forced into a similar playstyle in order to compete - the term "metaslave" was coined for a reason.


What Im trying to say is this:
PoE isnt a flawless game nor is GGG flawless - obviously.
But so are the players.

Instead of doing whats fun on an individual level, we want to be able to achieve everything under the sun, envy those who perform better than us, feel bad about stuff that shouldnt matter, min/max the fun out of the game because otherwise we might miss out on a precious drop and then blame it all on the game and the devs.


Now the game itself is setup by the devs to encourage all of this, Im aware, but this doesnt mean the players are absolved from their own responsibilty to make decisions and accepting the consequences of those decisions.
The players themselves are still very much in charge of whatever they are doing and yet refuse to accept accountability for better or worse.
And thats in my opinion the root of most issues.

It does narrow the spectrum though. As per players equipping all movement flasks. Now instead of having 125% base movement + 1 Quicksilver always up you only have the Quicksilver.

The overall tactic is to reward quick execution of notable encounters in maps to thus speed up your map clears not zoomer one slap the screen. Movement speed simply plays a role in this.

Yes there will always be min/max playing and that's in every game. The problem with it in PoE is we're talking hours, even days of difference because GGG has catered to this tactic over time. Back when the game had 3 Acts if you zoomed like today, you'd be dead pretty quick.

"

Xzorn wrote:

Yes there will always be min/max playing and that's in every game. The problem with it in PoE is we're talking hours, even days of difference because GGG has catered to this tactic over time. Back when the game had 3 Acts if you zoomed like today, you'd be dead pretty quick.

True and thats not even considering the snowball effect in raw power projection.

Then again: Who was crying the loudest when GGG did try to take away speed by nerfing some moveskills, flask uptime and overall clearspeed by nerfing dmg across the board?


GGG did cater to all of what you mentioned for years, no debate to be had here.
There is also no debate to be had that a large enough portion of playerbase did riot the moment GGG did take action to curb all of this.

Whether you or I were part of this or not doesnt matter.
What matters that the playerbase wants this sort of power. They crave so badly that they are still complaining about changes made in 3.15 and still refuse to support GGG financially.

This is a busisness, not a charity.
If your customers wont pay unless you give them what they want - in this case raw power and speed - then what are your options?

So yes GGG is guilty and so are the players.
You get what you pay for. Simple as that.

"

Orbaal wrote:

Then again: Who was crying the loudest when GGG did try to take away speed by nerfing some moveskills, flask uptime and overall clearspeed by nerfing dmg across the board?

Oh god, this.

Half the builds on my list to play I can't because I know they will suck right now. Meanwhile other builds got back years of power creep in 3 leagues. It's so bad right now.

I guess they need to trick the people who don't know better more. Though my vision is a fantasy at this point. They have managed to nerf things making the community think it was a buff. SS is strictly worse than Dodge on the high end for example.

All our defenses being based in Armor/Evasion/ES makes player more susceptible. When you build rounded, it's a mixed bag but when you build tanky it's notably worse. Then of course they left in all the Pen, Armor ignore and recently added Exposure. Defense spectrum is much smaller.

I played Lake for one sentence, Chris said "Less but more meaningful rare mobs". I thought OMG finally but it was a half truth only applying to pre-map rares. I don't think people would have mind beefy loot exploding rares that were less common.

Slowing down players is exactly what GGG has been doing, and it's why the game is feeling more dull and boring than ever before

Back before the massive support gem nerfs there were soooo many viable builds

Since that era there has been years worth of nerfs with little to no buffs

They have been nerfing juice speed, for example HH used to stack buffs and now it doesn't

That's not the problem at all

You don't seem to understand

It doesn't matter if you are clearing maps in 4 min or 2 min

The problem is that when you want to play the game, you have to knowingly choose a bad build or a good build

Once you're educated on builds and understand the game, it's extremely easy to test things in POB

So if you want to have "fun" and make your own build, you will quickly see that many skills suck compared to other ones you can play

Many archetypes are horrible, compared to other ones

The balance in the game is awful

It has nothing to do with MPH

The whole point of the game is to create a character, and make it "your own"...

GGG has ruined so many archetypes and builds that now there is a set # of viable builds

So all you're REALLY doing is doing a cookie cutter build

Not only that, but GGG creates a league mechanic that ISNT rewarding

So you're not encouraged to interact with it because its boring, repetitive, and not rewarding

MPH again still has nothing to do with any of the above

The game is just becoming dull and boring

It's headed in the direction of d3

Where there is a specific set of items that everyone is going for, there are clear S tier and A tier builds that everyone plays...

If you stray away from that, you are knowingly handicapping yourself and you will not enjoy it because ur character will feel weak and perhaps even die alot

I don't like to manually handicap myself, that's why I don't play SSF or Ruthless

GGG can easily reverse alot of the things im complaining about


#1 - make sure the league content scales

For example in Deli... you had deli mirror in your maps

Then you had another tier... deli orbs... all the way up to 100% deli t16

Then you had ANOTHER tier above that... Simulacrum

League content has to be rewarding and scale beyond just 1 layer

If you look at sanctum you have 1 layer with only 1 difference...

If it's past t14 you get to fight the final boss

Boring.........

#2 - buff bad uniques, bad skills, and bad archetypes

There needs to be more builds that are viable and feel strong to invest in

If builds don't have investment opportunities or a low ceiling... you won't want to play that build

It's really not that complex.... GGG just flat out does NOT want to buff anything


#3 - create more chase items that are interesting and create build opportunities

Everyone wants to get their hands on a mageblood

There needs to be more items that people want and want to chase


#4 - end game bosses should be fun to fight and rewarding, not boring and something that is a simple dps check

There needs to be more randomness

More rewarding

Better balancing on boss fights

The simplest way to handle all ubers is to just do 1 of 2 things

Either you insta kill it OR you can face tank it

That's so boring.....

Bosses are so uninteresting and unenjoyable to fight in POE

Everyone just prefers to kill mobs

Their game needs to be redesigned and boss encounters redesigned as well

More ADDS during bosses, less down time, less boring 1 shot mechanics, more encouragement to try them on various builds etc

Most people just AFK farm maps brainlessly and sell their boss encounters

GGG should make them untradeable and rewarding to do

It's not my job to figure out all the problems of POE

But I'm giving my feedback that IMO the current game is dull and boring

I understand.
You might not realize those things don't work as a result of other changes made to the core gameplay both over time and with knee jerk reactions to some random clip or "meta" weight.

Build diversity is at an all time low to due GGG trying to curve power creep in 3.15 then back stepping but only half way. The 3.15 changes, esp for flasks was not done correctly.

Bleed, Ignite and pretty much most things that aren't spells / CoC are in horrible shape because right after 3.15 GGG gave back years of power creep but only to those archetypes.

Bosses are not as rewarding as they could be because of the maximized zoomers.
Something GGG tried to fix in 3.15. Also despite GGG's self proclaimed affinity with boss fights. They're not very good. They should probably stop and work on play dynamics.

They should probably drop this "chase item" garbage while they're at it.
Squire, HH, MB, Omniessence, Ull Vow, Stasis Prison, etc. These are not build enabling items.
They're just busted so players grind for their power fantasy to nowhere.

Defense changes mixed with AN reinforced the Kill quickly or die method of play further. Making like I mentioned, rounded builds a mixed bag and tanky builds nowhere near their previous numbers.

All this stems from core design problems. Speed was just one example.

Every single point you made 100% reflects how the game actually is right now.

To top it off, they have silently nerfed loot on every single piece of content after the fist patch of 3.20 dropped. Making things even more frustrating.

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Xzorn wrote:

Build diversity is at an all time low to due GGG trying to curve power creep in 3.15 then back stepping but only half way. The 3.15 changes, esp for flasks was not done correctly.

This right here is where I have to disagree strongly.
The game is in a pretty good state right now, better than it has been for years.

Build diversity is very high and you could make almost everything work, if you wanted to. I really dont understand where this is coming from.


Dozens of builds can get you all the way to T16s and also get you 2 Voidstones with next no investment needed.
Thats not hard to do at all.

From there you can also fairly easily farm 10-20 divs and get most more advanced builds going, ready to take on the rest with the exception of the uber uber bosses. Honestly 5-10 div should be enough but whatever, lets double that budget just to make sure.
It doesnt take all that much to make it happen.


What more do you guys want?