We have hard mode… Where is easy mode?
" its not about preaching... an easy mode would fracture the playerbase,because you cant allow crossplay between these modes it could kill the game some players are simply against the easy mode not ebcause they want you to have a bad time ingame,but they fear they would have a bad time ingame after such a change obviously ppl care about their fun more than about your fun especially when there is no good alternative out there D3 is a sad joke and other competitors even when they look promising,they lack content compared to poe how could they not? poe has collected content for many years from past leagues Last edited by ciel289#7228 on Nov 19, 2022, 4:10:10 PM
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" I for one think that being super worried about how people on trade would behave with being less people trading dont make a whole lot of sense if you consider they DID made SSF and they ARE making ruthless now. If the point is we cant divide the playerbase, then the existence of both those modes defeats it I also find a weird thing to we worried about since they put in the trade manifesto that trade is cluncky and archaic as it is as a measure to limit it, i mean, why would you be concerned about people not wanting to trade anymore and at the same time, you softgate that same mechanic by making it obnoxious? Not saying it is wrong to not provide it, just pointing out im quite sure market impact caused by exodus of players trading is unlikely to be terribly high on their list of "reasons why not do it" |
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" 100% this, It has the potential to kill the game if we divide up the playerbase too much for a variety of reasons. Is there a way forward that does not separate us as much? Probably not but gonna still try to think on it, I hope all of you will too. Innocence forgives you
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" the ssf we have now is a very different thing,its not fracturing the playerbase the reasons for this are -you can leave ssf whenever you want -there are no advantages in playing ssf except for fun -ppl were already playing that way ggg made it very clear when they added ssf they dont want to incentive playing that way,because the game is not balanced around it ssf doesnt change anything it only hides the "invite player" option and blocks invites from other players while its true that "hardmode/ruthless" could fractrue the playerbase there isnt really a risk for it to actually happen ggg was alwyas fine with making the game "harder" (i.e. private league mods) what it really boils down to is "the vision" the game creater has ggg sees softcore trade as how poe "should be played" yes trading can be very inconvenient,but that has an updside this means overall droprates are better its a very important and difficult balance act for the "why not do it" part -it would take extra work to get an easy mode going (ruthless is an off worktime project) -it would fracture the playersbase -it would compromise the "game vision" the game vision is actually very important,it works as a guidline for future content im not saying the vision is always good ,but when you stray to far from it and listen to too many very different opinions of the playerbase you will end up with a very bad game a game cant be two opposites at the same time (i.e. easy/hard,simple/complex etc) when you try to do both you end up beeing neither of the two poe was always sold as "hard/difficult/complex" game and thats why it was and still is so successful |
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" My 2 cents is that if they trow that trade manifesto in the garbage and implement a system where trade(at least currency) is not an arduous affair where you either overpay or have to suffer tro a good 15 minutes to find a legit seller that is not on content he cant leave, a good number of people that currently would jump on an SSF easy mode would instead stick to trade mode I mean, SSF is still restrictive compared to trade even with extra currency, it STILL is a rather gamble-heavy enviroment where you can burn your whole stash and not get the affix combo you wanted. Trade gives you a clear-cut deal for a garanteed result For comparison, look at the 1,5k fuses recipe to 6-link: Its not exactly a secret that the recipe is kinda of a rip-off and long term, its better to fuse the traditional way, but theres a great allure in expensive but certain sucess over a chance that is statistically more favorable but ultimately uncertain I dont think im alone when i say i just want an easy mode because trading sucks... a simple orb exchange is way too taxing on your patience and putting orbs on sale can be annoying with people wispering just to price-check. If we get a mode where one can get orbs in a more reasonable pace but removes the certainty trade gives, thats ALSO NOT a good fix, but it would be just better than suffering trough this archaic trade system. If the trade system wasnt so obnoxious, the allure of an easy SSF would decrease a LOT. We already kinda get all we need, value chaos-wise speaking, its just converting it into the actual stuff is a pain in the rear |
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i always advocated for a "direct buy option" for consumables (orbs/maps/fragments etc)
i simply dont see a harm in that,because these are gone after their use but this would have problems as well "real" items however should never be traded that way its still wrong when some ppl pretend the trade manifestos are outdated/wrong the reason ggg gives for keeping the trade this way are valid whether you like them or not this doesntmean you cant value the pros and cons for any kind of instant trade differently than ggg |
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" The very fact that the idea that a SSF mode with more currency can be treatening to the core game is a symptom that things are not in a good spot. SSF is always more restrictive, random drops are still random even if you increase the odds and crafting is still an uncertain affair when you only have the materials given by randomness. Trade always have the advantage that it gives certain results and it makes progress stable because even if you dont find what you want, you can exchange it for what you want, nor you are forced into a specific content if you want a drop-specific thing Trading being inconvenient as a measure to keep it in check is a very idiotic way to do it. There is other ways to gate it, like limiting the amount of trade one can make in a timeframe both number and current-wise(as in, give a limit to how much value and how many trades you make and block further trades until the moment you get master missions if you bust both, so you can still make tons of small trades and a number of big ones, keep the reset time small to dont overrestrict, make the window scale with amount of total experience gained so you cant trade with a true fresh acc, but it opens up when you reach maps and if you get a large limit, you earned it tro playtime), GGG has found creative solutions to many problems over the history of PoE, that they insist on keeping this archaic system unter the idea that the obnoxiousness is intentional is just eye-rolling. That might make sense if were talking about anti-suicide measures(making killing yourself inconvenient DOES work to deter it), but we are talking about a freakin videogame here As for "it would take extra work", i dont think it would take any more work than making ruthless took, its exactly the same concept, but inverted. Ruthless was a product of a bunch of bored devs amusing themselves on their free time, an easy mode could be made on the same aproach, if they wanted As for the "vision", i actually have a rough time thinking Chris REALLY wants a "hard" game. "Complex", sure, but "hard"? ARPGs in general are not exactly games high on the execution bar, and the powercreep gets a bit worse every expansion. Yeah, they nerf stuff a lot, BUT its mostly only nerfs that affect new players and can be bypassed if you are among the "elite". PoE is a game that might be extremely hard on newcomers, but it just spreads its legs for old timers, the power you can get on gear greatly outdoes the top scaling of monsters. People have been noting forever that past a certain point, the game turns into a yawn-fiesta and they barely ever move a straw to adress it |
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Hoho, then lets have only easy mode so as to not fracture the playerbase. No? Or let us check if more people want to play easy mod or more people want to play hard mode?
I will tell you what will kill the game - unsatisfied people who'd rather leave than be miserable from either camp. As for whether there would be a contraction in the economy if we do divide the playerbase, consider that happy people tend not to quit the league in a week. Also consider how much currency are people who favor easy mode likely to introduce into the economy. We are talking about people who tend to play less (no one who plans to play 4+ h a day every day will insist on easy mode aka faster progress). |
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Runescape is fractured as hell in terms of their community (EoC vs non-EoC, oldschool vs newschool, ironman vs non-ironman) and they appear to be doing fine. I'm using it as an example, because they share a similar number of active players when PoE releases a new league.
I don't think a fractured community is much of a viable reason to not include an easy mode, especially if its SSF. For players who tend not to enjoy the tedium of trade, but don't want to subject themselves to a worse experience playing on an SSF league, they'll play on easy mode where the game will be rebalanced to be more rewarding. Meanwhile, everyone else who enjoys valuable garbage they can't use yet is worth selling will be in normal trade leagues, alt-f4'ers will be in HC, and absolute masochists will be in SSF and SSFHC. PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds. Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build! And the winds will cry / and many men will die / and all the waves will bow down / to the Loreley Last edited by Pizzarugi#6258 on Nov 19, 2022, 7:29:54 PM
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only make easy mode?
this could work,but its a horrible idea and very risky as well such a change would mean a shift in target audience which could kill the game in the process there is no point in choosing such a risk as long as the game does fine (based on profits) im not that familiar with runescape,but when i tryed it it was a very different game expierence its a lot slower and mostly knowledge dependent,if you know what to do you will always win when you are prepared for the fights in poe the tools alone (gear and boss fight mechanics) arent enough,you really have to focus on the fights |
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