No straightforward dialogue with players?

It sure seems like GGG has decided to hide in the trenches and not communicate outside of more official channels.

Its all manifestos now, zero discussion.

Given how recent changes have been received, I understand. (But I still think, respectfully, you are shooting yourself in the foot longterm.)

Curious what players think?

-Bad idea
-Good idea
-Justified, but still bad idea
-Longterm suicide revert course now
-Screw the players they have it coming

What do people think?

Looks like a necessary degree of self-protection - the community has been rather hostile lately, so direct interactions would likely lead to GGG people taking shit in the face for no benefit. They need to fix the game first and regain some goodwill.

I have this feeling that words have lost a lot of weight. I'd rather let the game do all the talking.

Why would they communicate with this community? They just announced a news post about upcoming topics and league info.. and people got all raged up again for nothing. People actually complained about it. I wouldn't want to talk to the community either.

At this point they literally can't win. They'll release some manifesto's. Then annoucement day/patch notes. Then just let the game do the talking.

"

trixxar wrote:

Curious what players think?

I guess most players don't care about the shitstorm. My buddies returned to poe this league and nobody understand any of this backlash.

So I personally think that the outrage comes from a loud minority of the playerbase. GGG cant satisfy everyone.

Personally I think manifestos are a mistake already, honestly I don't really think the justification matters at all we are all playing a video game and what we want is more fun, what we don't want is less fun.

Aside from reaching for those goals I don't know what is accomplished by a manifesto especially when the logic they cite is frequently outdated or incorrect.

Just make good changes that's it. If the changes are so bad you think you need to explain it to us maybe make them less bad, or in a different way.

You guys know what i'm talking about i'm sure but its like even the problem solution format frequently sets up an incorrect premise, then an incorrect solution. The ones where it actually works is spell suppression is OP on gear, removed 30% from gear, added 30% to passives - believable problem, believable solution.

Also doesn't require an explanation as its obvious in the approach taken.

There is little good that would come from direct interaction with this community. Even though GGG deserves some of the flack they're getting, the community is still overly aggressive and hostile on the topic. Some of the community expects an all-out surrender of future development decisions as if this is some sort of democracy alongside a complete revert of their work. And all that after a full-throated apology; probably with a sacrifice of their first-born children to appease the whiney community gods. :)

This community just isn't at a maturity level that would enable such collaboration. Some people are, but they will be overshadowed heavily by the folks that are not. It's simply not a healthy situation for them to engage like that.

Discussions with the playerbase won't do anything and only cause problems. Just look at how fractured the playerbase is. A dialog would be useless. All they can do is read our feedback, consider it and then do what they think is best. Whether that actually is the best in the end, well that's another story.

"

trixxar wrote:

What do people think?

I'm very torn on this.

As a principle, I'm always in favor of transparency and openness when it comes to developers and game development. I also think a good debate/discussion is a very productive setting - and much better than just one-way feedback.

That said; them listening to feedback and them obeying said feedback are two completely different things. While players should ALWAYS give feedback, they should never DEMAND to be heard - or get butthurt if their subjective ideas don't get picked up by the developers.

We have to remember that game developers are developing an artistic experience: The experience THEY want US to have (or at least the experience SOME OF THEM want us to have :P). I understand perfectly well that HUGE mechanical changes, like Harvest or an AH (examples), that would COMPLETELY shift the ground foundations of the game (and the artistic idea?) are being ignored/kept in line by the developers.

Sometimes we as players should be able to respect their direction. I think it's VERY hard for them to have a discussion about certain topics, when we as players can't respect THEIR choices AT ALL, and keep bringing up the same examples (Harvest, AH or whatever) year after year, even though they have made it pretty clear where they stand.

A GOOD discussion/debate should always be based on respecting other peoples opinions, even though you disagree. The moment you don't, it's not a GOOD discussion anymore. Why should they respect our feedback, when we clearly can't respect their decisions?

Bottom line? I think it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to have a valuable/good discussion here or on Reddit, without it turning into a whine fest.

"

e1337donkey wrote:

Why would they communicate with this community? They just announced a news post about upcoming topics and league info.. and people got all raged up again for nothing. People actually complained about it. I wouldn't want to talk to the community either.

At this point they literally can't win. They'll release some manifesto's. Then annoucement day/patch notes. Then just let the game do the talking.

Pretty much this. Anything they post players just rage from old wounds lol.