[Divine Orb Price Shenanigans in Sanctum League] 1:245

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Walkiry wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

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Reinhart wrote:

I find it strange that league players care about the price of divine orbs. These enter a remove-only tab in standard where they never play, at least that is what they claim. (I have seen people not willing to part with their items although they claimed they never played standard while shitting on standard)


Also everyone claiming divines would skyrocket to 300-500c were clearly exaggerating.

I'm pretty sure there are people who play league to amass wealth for standard. I mean, I'm not one of them, but I can see logic behind it, so there's for sure someone doing it.

And yes, the divine price evaded all expectations. My personal read is that the lower supply of divines got counterbalanced by some meta crafts staying on exalts, so the divine sink isn't as deep as the exalt sink was. Also, the harvest nerf may have led to a lower amount of endgame crafting being done, which is another negative demand shock for divines compared to exalts in previous leagues.

Nah, it's the lootgoblins (IMO of course). Once the farmers figured out how to squeeze 50+ divines out of god touched mobs, it was on.

People figured that out two weeks into the league, and the price of divine only started dropping like 4 days ago. Highly unlikely that those two factors would be correlated, given there's over a month between them.

It has been years this is the normal cycle for exalted orbs first and for divines from now on, probably.

First days of the league you have a low price, around let us say 50-80 chaos, then a couple of weeks later at most the price spikes to 150-200 chaos because the demand increases, then there is the last spike when people start leaving because the demand is still high but the offer is lower (and there is also some price fixing), then the last one month and a half to two months prices stabilize around 140-150 chaos.

This is not because the world is ending or because POE is over, it is just how the economics has worked for years. People are very excited the first two weeks and play a lot, after that some people keep playing for challenges or whatever goal they set, other people move on to other games. It is the three months cycle.

If you checked the medical history of a person that lived longer than average would you say that person hitting puberty at 12-14 is too early compared to the fact they lived to see 100 years? Wouldn't you say that you are doing your reasoning backwards instead? This league has been extended but people don't usually play until the end, the majourity of people play a couple of weeks, a month tops no matter if the league is 3 months, 4 months or one year long.

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Xyel wrote:

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Reinhart wrote:

I find it strange that league players care about the price of divine orbs. These enter a remove-only tab in standard where they never play, at least that is what they claim. (I have seen people not willing to part with their items although they claimed they never played standard while shitting on standard)


Also everyone claiming divines would skyrocket to 300-500c were clearly exaggerating.

I'm pretty sure there are people who play league to amass wealth for standard. I mean, I'm not one of them, but I can see logic behind it, so there's for sure someone doing it.

And yes, the divine price evaded all expectations. My personal read is that the lower supply of divines got counterbalanced by some meta crafts staying on exalts, so the divine sink isn't as deep as the exalt sink was. Also, the harvest nerf may have led to a lower amount of endgame crafting being done, which is another negative demand shock for divines compared to exalts in previous leagues.

Not gonna lie I expected Divines to be significantly more expensive than Exalts given that there are no shards, only one divination card and it's not really farmable and unlike Exalts Divines have higher sink potential unlike Exalts that were used sparringly for their intended purpose. Also thought that Exalts will be 30-40c, because of Eldrith Exalt was costing about this much.

But seems like I underesteamated just how badly Harvest nerfs will hurt crafting and some other factors.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

But seems like I underesteamated just how badly Harvest nerfs will hurt crafting and some other factors.

I am very confused by this statement. Please would you care to explain how Harvest changes impact on divine orbs' prices?

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TheFazzos wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

But seems like I underesteamated just how badly Harvest nerfs will hurt crafting and some other factors.

I am very confused by this statement. Please would you care to explain how Harvest changes impact on divine orbs' prices?

Harvest nerfs made crafting much worse -> less people crafting -> less people spend Divines on metamods. Something like that.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

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TheFazzos wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

But seems like I underesteamated just how badly Harvest nerfs will hurt crafting and some other factors.

I am very confused by this statement. Please would you care to explain how Harvest changes impact on divine orbs' prices?

Harvest nerfs made crafting much worse -> less people crafting -> less people spend Divines on metamods. Something like that.

I am not sure I agree with the statement, for 2 reasons:

1) Harvest nerfs are not entirely nerfs. Some functionality has been lost, rightfully so in my opinion because having access to potentially infinite iterations of a craft would have made that craft OP. Please mind that Harvest had two majour changes, one of which is unaccounted for by most:
- Harvest crafts are "tradable" now without recurring to third party sites or the TFT Discord;
- but also: you do not need to store crafts anymore and you are not limited to a maximum of 15 crafts at a time. This is actually a huge improvement.
That said, the Harvest changes have made it possible for players to craft at least some items that were not accessible to them before. I am thinking about +2 amulets that now are quite doable in SSF as well.
The other effect of removing some functionalities from Harvest was to redirect players toward other crafting methods such as Delve and Bestiary which in my opinion is a good thing.
All in all crafting is not dead, just less reliable, but I do not believe this has stopped people from crafting.

2) The reason why people spend less divines in metamods, if they do (and I am not entirely sure about that either) is that divines also have a spammable functionality that exalted orbs had not. Divines can also be used to reroll stats values so you have to choose what to do with them more carefully. This is maybe more important than Harvest changes to the price fluctuations of divines.

I do not think people have stopped crafting just because crafting has become less reliable. I do believe, on the contrary, that people craft MORE because it is harder to get the exact item you want so you need to go through several iterations before settling on an item, and everything playable that you produce in between you can just sell. So in a sense low-level crafting is MORE accessible, because of how Harvest has changed, but at the same time high-level crafting is LESS accessible, because of the currency needed to go through the amount of iterations you need to get the result you want.

If I am reading this correctly, good items are more accessible, GG items are more or less accessible because they are the items discarded by high-end crafters in the process of making GGG items, and GGG items are very expensive both because you need a lot of tries before making one, and because currency has got more expensive too. Also, we are long past the league's peak so there are fewer and fewer player around and items will cost more and more each day. This contributes to the spike in price of divines too, I think. It's a vicious circle.

> That said, the Harvest changes have made it possible for players to craft at least some items that were not accessible to them before. I am thinking about +2 amulets that now are quite doable in SSF as well.

Actual craft now costs more and way more annoying to do.

It's questionable whether it's now more accessible even for SSF, because you still need Sacred Blossom and those are pretty rare. Probably still less rare than specific augment craft.

But then again you can't reforge, keep prefix/suffix anymore so everyone is worse off.

> The other effect of removing some functionalities from Harvest was to redirect players toward other crafting methods such as Delve and Bestiary which in my opinion is a good thing.


Nothing changed here actually. They didn't suddenly become much better or anything. They didn't exploded in popularity or anything. Still very niche. People use them just like they did earlier (yes, people did used varity of tools for crafting, even back before Harvest was nerfed first time)


> All in all crafting is not dead, just less reliable, but I do not believe this has stopped people from crafting.

Crafting is just way more annoying and expensive now. It's just less inspiring right now.

> 2) The reason why people spend less divines in metamods, if they do (and I am not entirely sure about that either) is that divines also have a spammable functionality that exalted orbs had not. Divines can also be used to reroll stats values so you have to choose what to do with them more carefully. This is maybe more important than Harvest changes to the price fluctuations of divines.

People do spend less on metamods because people craft less, but it's because crafting sucks now. Also I don't think people divine much of anything at the moment. It makes little sense to do if it costs 200+c (earlier). Unless it's Mageblood or high end crafted item or something along these lines.

> I do not think people have stopped crafting just because crafting has become less reliable. I do believe, on the contrary, that people craft MORE because it is harder to get the exact item you want so you need to go through several iterations before settling on an item, and everything playable that you produce in between you can just sell. So in a sense low-level crafting is MORE accessible, because of how Harvest has changed, but at the same time high-level crafting is LESS accessible, because of the currency needed to go through the amount of iterations you need to get the result you want.

I never said that noone is crafting did? Just way less people do, including me, because fuck that - already got burnt because of Vision this League when tried to make RF helmet.

It's now more expensive, tedious and risky to craft so people who are crafting will spend more on same items, yes. It didn't made low level crafting better in the slightest though. If anything it was hurt just as much if not more, because you can't salvage items anymore.


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Overall you seem to come from misguided place. Crafting insane items wasn't easy before 3.19, it was still expensive, time, mind and energy consuming. Now it's way more expensive and tedious. Some people are balance obssessed - I am not, I don't see anything wrong if we could save items or set implicits on jewels or augment items (all augment type crafts are also way worse now, influence one is just awful right now).

Crafting just sucks now honestly. It's single worst thing that happened in 3.19 imo.

I am sorry we disagree about this. At the moment I find crafting just "ok" especially for SSF, and I know the game is not balanced around SSF but it goes to show how low-level crafting has become a lot more accessible. It can be improved of course. GGG is already considering introducing eldritch currency for weapons and jewellery. It is still a work in progress so we will see how it plays out in 3.20 I guess.

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TheFazzos wrote:

I am sorry we disagree about this. At the moment I find crafting just "ok" especially for SSF, and I know the game is not balanced around SSF but it goes to show how low-level crafting has become a lot more accessible. It can be improved of course. GGG is already considering introducing eldritch currency for weapons and jewellery. It is still a work in progress so we will see how it plays out in 3.20 I guess.

Even if they introduce Eldrith implicits for all gear slot it still doesn't cover synthesised items and influenced. It's band aid for gaping wound.

The only remedies we got this League for crafting is Fractured items galore and Fracturing items are more accessible on Harvest and you can now fracture Cluster jewels and jewels in general.

I suppose you are not really aspire for any inspirational gear are you?

It depends. Anyway GGG grade gear is more often than not a team effort. If you go on TFT on the mirror service sub you will see that mirror tier items are usually a team effort and there are rules and agreements between guilds about who can craft them. Since I play alone I cannot really aspire to that level of gear, and that has always been the case even before this patch. That said, sure, I would like to make some very good piece of gear, but if I don't get a 6 tier 1 item every time that does not bother me, as long as I am able to do what I want with what I have. And at the moment I can do whatever I want given a little time, so for me the situation is not as bleak as some paint it.
But I understand that some tools for crafting were removed and this is problematic for some. Maybe Harvest was just not the place for those tools.
For example, I would gladly move the reforge suffix or prefix and the reroll mod values craft to Bestiary instead. So they would 1) still be tradeable, 2) still be accessible, but 3) not so much to break the game. Also they would revitalize yet another content.