Harvest had 50% more players at same point, Ritual had 90% more

Can we once and for all stop the nonsense that making players powerful with lots of agency makes them quit the league earlier?

It was dumb then, its worse than that now that it has been tested.

Can we stop repeating that theory finally? The data is in, its not close.



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/xx6pt3/i_know_we_just_looked_at_player_retention_but_did/

How is player retention meaningful at all? Leaguestart player number is the metric that counts and Kalandra is the fourth most successful league ever.

If you dont care about retention, thats fine by me.

But lets just stop the lie that player power reduces retention or people get done with the league earlier. If thats not your concern, then cool.


(To answer your question, neither you or I know the impact retention has on profit vs league start. I agree starting period is probably when people buy. But if everyone quit by day 2, you would agree they dont plan on returning next league start, so at some point it starts to matter. We could argue details but neither of us have the data to express exactly how important it is.)

even bots have left - cant buy those cheap essence...

btw i watched some popular streamer explain everyone is crafting now so thats why essences are so expensive and you have to farm them. sometime i really feel there is little hope in humanity. mby bring back bots is better?

"

TheFazzos wrote:

How is player retention meaningful at all? Leaguestart player number is the metric that counts and Kalandra is the fourth most successful league ever.

Leaguestart player number depends entirely on marketing. The peak is reached within an hour after the league's start, so no one has had the time to play the league to any meaningful level at that point.

Retention is the result of the quality of the league, because the marketing has finished, and it's the game's qualities that keep people around.

That's why retention is meaningful to discuss while leagestart numbers are not.

GGG does not make money with retention.

"

TheFazzos wrote:

GGG does not make money with retention.

It 100 % does. Retention starts from day 2, and there was a quote that they earn most of the money in the first 2 weeks of the league.

2 weeks, not 2 hours.

Plus, retention seems to have a solid impact on the next league's leaguestart (Sentinel had decent-ish retention, leading to Kalandra's good leagestart, just like Ritual's great retention led to the glorious leaguestart of Ultimatum; and on the opposite of the spectrum, Archnemesis's poor retention caused Sentinel's lower leaguestart numbers).

It also makes sense logically - good retention means people are happy playing the game, creating a better word of mouth, resulting in higher hype for the next league.

And finally, the idea that customer retention doesn't matter for the business making money is downright a lunacy.

Ill avoid the term white knighting because it oversimplifies, and just use "Pro-GGG".

Pro-GGG crowd: We have to nerf harvest because it makes people quit earlier, and retention is important.

/proves this is not only false, but backward.

Pro-GGG crowd: Retention never mattered anyway, who cares!

I believe KobeBlackMamba proved that GGG makes the most money before league start, not in the first 2 weeks.

ritual was the best league and kalandra is the worst, so its like comparing apples to oranges.