10% xp penalty is far too frustrating

So this is my first time ever trying to actually do end game content in PoE, so I'm not complaining about this league, as I've never experienced the endgame in any other league to begin with.

I will say though, that the most frustrating thing about end game is simply the 10% xp penalty on death. If the game did not have that, I'd be enjoying everything about it. I don't play hardcore, and I don't care to, but in the end game I feel like it's almost as bad as playing hardcore. I'll kill mobs for hours, and then run into the perfect storm of affixes on a rare that just wreck me multiple times, and all my xp is gone.

It truly decentivizes me as a player. I don't even want to try doing my very first Syndicate Master unless I JUST levelled, because I have no idea how many times I'm gonna die. I am discouraged from trying new content because I'm going to lose all the effort I put in towards my next level.

It's sad, because the end game is great, I don't even mind the 6 portal limit, because if you die 6 times you can accept you're just not ready for that content yet.

But farming mobs for half an hour only to have a small spike in my internet connection ripping that half hour of effort away from me is beyond frustrating. I understand some people need that risk so they can have their adrenaline rushes, but I say those people can go play their hardcore mode, punishing us casual players with this 10% xp penalty is just disrespectful of our time.

I'm hoping to at least get a 10th challenge so I can get my measly tier 1 iridescent wings... but beyond that I think I'm done with PoE unless it stops punishing its own players for playing.

Death penalty is just something you have to accept. They have always had it and have only adjusted it once I believe. It's core to the game. I don't know how the phycology works, but they believe in it.

There needs to be a penalty for making mistakes. That's just how good game design works.

It makes player strive to improve and gives them reason to try alternate methods. When you remove penalties for making mistakes you'll end up in a situation like Warframe where nothing really matters. Players don't try and even AFK farm. Once this lazy play method becomes a foundation there's nothing separating performing players from know-nothing lazy ones when it comes to rewards.

Sadly this has been a growing thing in PoE as GGG puts more and more weight on Itemization rather than play or build design. Though it's a different reason the outcome is similar. Time Vs Reward.

The end-game loop of PoE has been an ever growing time sink. Back when it was Shaper/Elder you'd do 3-4 maps to move influence to the center, do the 4 guardians, kill them and do 3-4 maps to get the influence back. Then Conq and you had to do varying amount of maps for each Conq, kill the conqs, then do Sirus. Now you have to do 28 on the dot maps for Exarch/Eater.

All the while rewards, esp league rewards have just gotten worse doing this loop.

But in the end a Death penalty isn't the real problem. It's how players are dying.
Enemy Density is the base-line culprit for a lot of this.

"

It truly decentivizes me as a player. I don't even want to try doing my very first Syndicate Master unless I JUST levelled, because I have no idea how many times I'm gonna die. I am discouraged from trying new content because I'm going to lose all the effort I put in towards my next level.

In the current light-speed clusterfuck gameplay (otherwise you won't get any loot), death penalty is the worst possible design among numerous artificial retention stretchers in this game.

If few builds that allow stacking of all defense layers in the game at once do not appeal to you for any reason, the only way to keep your dignity here is to include price of 5-way service into your basic build cost. Just my opinion, designs like this death penalty do not deserve being adapted to.

You can easily die to another temporary disconnect, when latency starts increasing all the way to 30 sec, and when it reconnects (or you reenter game), you see yourself killed on server side, without ever relaying that to your client.

"

Xtorma wrote:

Death penalty is just something you have to accept. They have always had it and have only adjusted it once I believe. It's core to the game. I don't know how the phycology works, but they believe in it.

Yeah, my point is that I don't have to accept it. I can just go play something else, there is certainly no shortage of competition in the gaming industry these days.

I just thought the end game of path of exile looked really fun. I'd really like to beat the shaper or the elder or whatever some day, but probably won't happen because I'm a casual and the xp penalty has created a wall I am unable to surmount, regardless of how much time I put in.

I just wanted GGG to know that there exists players like me who would probably have put a lot more time (and maybe money) into their game if they just removed the xp penalty. Conversely, I suspect there's very few players that would actually be upset about its removal.

"

Xtorma wrote:

Death penalty is just something you have to accept. They have always had it and have only adjusted it once I believe. It's core to the game. I don't know how the phycology works, but they believe in it.

Yeah, my point is that I don't have to accept it. I can just go play something else, there is certainly no shortage of competition in the gaming industry these days.

I just thought the end game of path of exile looked really fun. I'd really like to beat the shaper or the elder or whatever some day, but probably won't happen because I'm a casual and the xp penalty has created a wall I am unable to surmount, regardless of how much time I put in.

I just wanted GGG to know that there exists players like me who would probably have put a lot more time (and maybe money) into their game if they just removed the xp penalty. Conversely, I suspect there's very few players that would actually be upset about its removal.

lvl 100 is a challenge. the challenge can be
- not die. tanky build and easier content.
- get carried with currency. you pay high xp content.
- get carried with rotation of the same content.
- free invites to the same content.

removing the penalty would remove 1 challenge in the game. why would you want that.

"

SerialF wrote:

l
removing the penalty would remove 1 challenge in the game. why would you want that.

I want that because it would allow me to try OTHER challenges in the game.

As it is, I don't even want to enter a temple of Atzoatl because I"m scared it'll just set me back a tonne of experience.

I would very much like to be able to do something other than run the simplest of non-enhanced maps until I reach lvl 100. I shouldn't have to complete that 'reach lvl 100' challenge before I feel comfortable trying other content in the game.

"

XeoTech wrote:

"

Xzorn wrote:

There needs to be a penalty for making mistakes. That's just how good game design works.

It makes player strive to improve and gives them reason to try alternate methods. When you remove penalties for making mistakes you'll end up in a situation like Warframe where nothing really matters. Players don't try and even AFK farm. Once this lazy play method becomes a foundation there's nothing separating performing players from know-nothing lazy ones when it comes to rewards.

Sadly this has been a growing thing in PoE as GGG puts more and more weight on Itemization rather than play or build design. Though it's a different reason the outcome is similar. Time Vs Reward.

The end-game loop of PoE has been an ever growing time sink. Back when it was Shaper/Elder you'd do 3-4 maps to move influence to the center, do the 4 guardians, kill them and do 3-4 maps to get the influence back. Then Conq and you had to do varying amount of maps for each Conq, kill the conqs, then do Sirus. Now you have to do 28 on the dot maps for Exarch/Eater.

All the while rewards, esp league rewards have just gotten worse doing this loop.

But in the end a Death penalty isn't the real problem. It's how players are dying.
Enemy Density is the base-line culprit for a lot of this.

There are countless other ARPGS that have no death penalty. XP penalty only serves one purpose: to piss off the player. But that is the theme here with this game, which is why they're still using it.

Doesn't mean it's the right way to do it.

If the way you died was admittedly you fault, would you still get mad?
ie Are you a controller thrower? Those types of gamers will get mad no matter what.

As I mentioned. Enemy Density is the primary culprit for a lot of this game's problems. Visually it creates a screen of puke the player has to deal with. Functionally it caters to AoE layering and probability based death. Even more so since AN which RNGs a nest of rolls against players.

RNG AN mods + RNG Beast mods + RNG Torment mods. It's just increasing probability of death. There's no skill involved above basic reactions. That's why I stopped playing HC back in Abyss.

It's how you died that matters. No Exp penalty isn't going to change that some deaths are complete BS and out of the player's hands entirely. That's what makes me mad.

"

XeoTech wrote:

There are countless other ARPGS that have no death penalty. XP penalty only serves one purpose: to piss off the player. But that is the theme here with this game, which is why they're still using it.

And there are countless GOOD aRPGs that have a death penalty, so really, you are showcasing a really moot point. I honestly can't think of a single good RPG that I played as of recent, that doesn't punish you for death. I'd like to hear at least 5 of those "countless" RPGs that don't have one, and are also considered good.

XP penalty truelly serves several purposes:
- To make a mistake that you've done ACTUALLY resonate with you, and make you think about what possiblly could have gotten wrong
- Its existance forces you to actually make a build that makes sense, is coherent and works together
- Its existances forces you to actively play the game instead of completly shutting off and playing an AFK-clicker
- To teach you that what you've just done, was wrong, and not to repeat it

In very short, a basic human concept is applied here. You learn little from winning, but a lot from losing. If all you're getting out of your deaths that you are getting pissed off, then it's not on the game to reward ignorance. It very much does not aim to do that.

For the one who says "but it's never my fault! it's my internet!" then I can only respond "How is that a problem for the game? It's not on the developers to fix your internet connection, and it does have servers in a lot of places to ensure a smooth gameplay (I think southern parts of africa are currently the only one's actually struggling for a stable and close connection)