Unique Map Drops are FAR too rare

1) Cortexes are being consumed, for uber cortex, for feared, they have far more use then putrid and more use then cowards.

2) Bosses don't take a unique build, they take a balanced build. Feared is among the harder stuff to farm regularly but its possible for a wide range of builds. Div cards were hit hard this patch, but they still are semi accessible from strongbox forcing, heist stacked decks, ect. Getting higher level bases is absolutely possible from a number of encounters, you havent disputed this fact pretty much at all. You think the vast majority of high level bases are single handily coming from an atlas passive and unique map, which has so much less accessibility then bosses that are actually farmed? You could if you wanted to make a build to effectively 1 shot the uber invitations for searing or eater, getting a number of higher level bases in the process.

3) No, they specifically said in order to make uniques feel more special they wanted to buff the power of them, but make them less common. Not that they dropped too often. But regardless that point is absolutely not in contention as unique maps aren't items, they are content.

Imagine if map drops in general were culled with the GGG reducing loot this patch, the league would have instantly been dead. Maps are content, not items, they should be accessible, but still have some value. Try bulk buying your favorite layout, you can see some t16 for for 3c some for 5c and some for more then that each. Then think about the concept of gating unique maps in general so heavily, even if you are spec'd into the only nodes on the tree to boost the droprate and NEVER seeing a rare one drop, you think that is ok given its maps, given its content?

4) Lower currency drops would indicate then that the value of the map, due to the scarce droprate has DRAMATICALLY increased. While at the same time the value of cortex has dramatically reduced. The only logical explanation is that they simply drop at such a small fraction of what they did before. But synthesis maps are less effected because they have greater base chance from bosses, div card accessibility and stronger nodes on the tree.

The value of exalts changed for a number of reasons, but largely its not nearly as important in order to create multimod and endgame items. Which menas horders and crafters not longer consume them or have a need to hang onto them which means letting them go into the market. More supply without much sink = crashed value. There are also far more exalted cards and acquisition methods now then there are for divines. Drop rate of the currencies are not the same as droprate of uniques or even unique maps, comparing them is just trying to lead into a completely different discussion.


I mean if you want to go down that route, I found what 20-30 divines and exalts, but saw 0 of putrid and 0 of cowards trial maps? Found what 5ish cortexes? Why should currency droprates of supposedly "rare" currency be so much higher then content?

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Honestly what this all boils down to is you just happen to have felt the lack of unique drops in terms of cloisters and cowards trials. That's a shame but it doesn't point to anything wrong with drops.

I'm simply just giving feedback to GGG regarding my experiences, what this forum is for. If they look at the data and determine its fine, so be it, I can't change it, but for me to invest what I can into a system to try and get specific rewards and get nothing, well I'm going to think the droprates are wrong. I've been playing this game for a long, very long time and it isn't right. Its not just me looking at my experience this league and saying it, I've talked with a number of players on my FL and guild and they all seem to have experienced the same thing.

Its possible these are suppose to come from getting a touched monster combination of unique conversion and maps and drop an explosion of them. But this goes to a fundamental issue with changing loot to be pinata based instead of a more natural curve of acquisition.

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but I pointed out that I haven't dropped a single Coward's Trial in YEARS of playtime. It happens..

Unless you are purging your characters then I'm not surprised? I've gotten quite a few characters playing damn near every league since open beta and I have quite a bit of experience regarding the drop rate of these. Its bad and I can't really let someone that apparently has never found one and ok with never finding one tell me otherwise.

Yep I purge my chars. All my current account are just my characters from the last 2 leagues. I don't play standard so things just get deleted.

You appear to delete crucial parts of my argument lol. I didn't say bosses take a unique build, I said FARMING bosses takes a unique build. Sure, balanced builds or even just skillful gameplay can beat any boss (except ubers). But if your goal is to farm bosses, you create a boss killer.

As for uniques, they said BOTH. They want to improve uniques and the feeling of dropping one, which to them was two-pronged: reducing the drop rate of uniques, and increasing the power of the uniques. These are mutually exclusive and play on each other, but they didn't reduce the drop rate BECAUSE uniques are more powerful.

Maps ARE items. Drop rate of maps WAS affected by the changes to overall loot. Plenty of folks complained early league about being unable to progress in their atlas because maps were dropping far less frequently. Unique maps are unique ITEMS. Just because they are ALSO content doesn't change the fact that they are drops.

I wasn't debating WHY exalt values dropped. I am well aware of the extra reasons. I was pointing out that your explanation of "rarity" and map value doesn't make sense without taking into account all the other variables, just as you can't make a judgment on exalt value based solely on its rarity. Regarding raw currency drops: there are direct modifiers that make currency drops far more common than unique maps. There are far LESS different types of currency than there are uniques in the game. Even with weighting, that means its more likely for you to find higher value currency than it is to find a specific unique item.

Uniques are more rare, so unique maps are more rare. Modifiers that affect unique drops will affect unique map drops, but because the unique drop pool is large that effect will be less noticeable. So unique maps will STILL be more rare this league even in specifically unique juiced content. That is why you and your friends have seen a drop in unique maps. That is by design.

Regarding your first point: cortexes are consumed by players that can complete the cortex, or feared, or uber content. That is a small % of the playerbase. All other players farm the maps to sell them. Supply and demand is well balanced for cortexes, so there are more for sale regardless of the fact that they are being used. There might be fewer putrids and fewer cowards because they don't sell fast enough so players take them off the market and run themselves. We don't know the answer to this. It's also only 1 month into a 3 month league...prices will continue to change quite a bit. More valuable items such as cortex will rise in price, whereas cowards trial (exp primarily) will drop in value as bases and higher level items continue to flood the market.

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But if your goal is to farm bosses, you create a boss killer.

True, but if you want to play a balanced character you can and should absolutely do that too. Not every character needs to be designed specifically for endgame encounters to do them. Most of mathils characters are centered around mapping and doing bosses, not just bossing.

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As for uniques, they said BOTH. They want to improve uniques and the feeling of dropping one, which to them was two-pronged: reducing the drop rate of uniques, and increasing the power of the uniques. These are mutually exclusive and play on each other, but they didn't reduce the drop rate BECAUSE uniques are more powerful.

Just listened to the unique discussion portion of the ziggyd interview with Chris and nothing he indicated there would apply to unique maps. Items, which was the focus of the unique balance this patch is not the same as unique maps, which aren't buffed. If they want cowards or putrid to be better and this rare, then they are indeed in need of another buff.

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Maps ARE items. Drop rate of maps WAS affected by the changes to overall loot. Plenty of folks complained early league about being unable to progress in their atlas because maps were dropping far less frequently. Unique maps are unique ITEMS. Just because they are ALSO content doesn't change the fact that they are drops.

Lol map are items in that you can trade them and they take up slots, but they are more like currency then they are items. When culling is happneing they dont purge map drops, they purge equipable gear.

People ALWAYS complain about map drops early in a league, but its never truly an issue anymore. Kirc gives more missions then zana did, more useful stuff drops to reroll his missions. He sells more maps for cheaper then she did and maps not being region locked has all made progressing the atlas easier now then EVER before.

I haven't heard a streamer complain about any regular map drops in over a year, if not longer. Map drops themselves I believe weren't impacted by the changes this league.

Drops are not equal to items. Currency is a drop, but not an item. Maps are closer to currency then they are to equipment.

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Uniques are more rare, so unique maps are more rare.

Even if this is true, I'm saying it shouldn't. That is my whole argument. What is the point of having unique maps that don't drop and atlas nodes that enhance or even buff the drop chance to nothing?

Synthesis maps aren't more rare from what I can tell.... are you saying that they aren't unique maps? As far as I can tell influenced maps aren't more rare. Regular maps aren't more rare. So why was unique maps impacted?

Because the so-called idea that they are unique? Again synthesis maps are, but they aren't impacted?

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Modifiers that affect unique drops will affect unique map drops, but because the unique drop pool is large that effect will be less noticeable. So unique maps will STILL be more rare this league even in specifically unique juiced content. That is why you and your friends have seen a drop in unique maps. That is by design.

The effect is 0 impact completely, its only 4 points (plus pathing if not right there), but its still 4 points that seems to not have any effect at all. As far as it being by design, again I disagree, nothing GGG has said should indicate unique maps should be more rare as a result. Last time I checked you aren't a GGG designer so you can't know either. (feel free to source something I missed)

currency are also items...effected by any and all changes to loot drops.

You are getting hung up on arbitrary labels like: currency, unique, map, equippable, etc. They are ALL items and ALL function the same in the drop pool (except in conversion or chests). The quantity changes on league mechanics did NOT just affect equippables, it affected ALL item drops including currency, maps, etc.

Uniques include unique maps implicitly. They are both unique items and in the same unique drop pool. There is not a separate unique map pool, however unique maps ARE cross-listed in both the "map" and "unique" tags when it comes to chest or otherwise specific drops.

This has always been the case for PoE. Every single change to general loot affects ALL loot. There is no separate "loot" mechanic for equippables vs currency vs maps vs anything else that may drop from all monsters. The ONLY thing that used to be different was that item rarity did NOT effect currency drops. And it STILL doesn't. Rarity is affecting currency drops through a secondary stage of AN conversion, which makes rarer items convert to higher currency values. Rarity still does not directly influence currency raw drops.

GGG might increase/decrease specific drops when they want, such as when they increased the map drop rate I believe when we first introduced watchstones. But thats just a subset of the overall "item" classification in terms of drops.

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You are getting hung up on arbitrary labels like: currency, unique, map, equippable, etc. They are ALL items and ALL function the same in the drop pool

Not based on what GGG has said in the past, this would only apply to AN modifiers that manipulate drops into being a specific thing. Items have always been independent from currency, with the exception of stuff like div cards which are effected by item quantity.

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They are both unique items and in the same unique drop pool.

Not based on what GGG has stated in the past. You think it rolls unique and then determines the item that drops? Based on everything GGG has said in the past it rolls the drop then rolls rarity, which would indicate that your statement is wrong.

Game decides to drop a museum map, it then rolls is unique, no, then is rare, no then is blue, no then finally drops as a museum map. This was explained back when chances were being discussed regarding uniques on the same base. (mjolner, ect)

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This has always been the case for PoE. Every single change to general loot affects ALL loot. There is no separate "loot" mechanic for equippables vs currency vs maps vs anything else that may drop from all monsters

Nothing GGG has ever said would indicate this as being true. When beast nets dropping were replacing alchemy drops they were JUST replacing alchemy drops, not chaos, not exalts, not divines, just alchemy. Tiering in this game matters a lot.

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GGG might increase/decrease specific drops when they want, such as when they increased the map drop rate I believe when we first introduced watchstones. But thats just a subset of the overall "item" classification in terms of drops.

So now they did increase map drops when you've stated that they have no means to do so without also increasing other items? Following the logic of item classifications, anything with a unique\map classification shouldn't be impacted by the cull of uniques, because it has tags that should have been exempt from the cull. Did GGG ever say during any part of the announcement that they wanted unique maps to be rarer? No Therefore the only logical explanation is that the droprate change is unintended.


You have been relatively cordial with me in the discussion of this, but you aren't GGG and you haven't actually refuted anything I've said with actual GGG quotes or facts. If anything you've proven you don't know how the systems indeed work (except AN conversion) in regards to drops.

When they've stated they've culled and have been culling drops that people don't pickup they are talking about equipment classification items. Bases at higher level that are lower level bases, ect. That would have 0 impact on unique maps.

I feel like we got nothing else to say to each other if you want to continue to bump the thread feel free.

there are like 2-3 unique maps that are worth running. the rest is outdated garbage that i only run once per league for the unique map challenge. would be nice if cortex dropped more but the rest like wakawahuah or whatever its called? nah

@Goetz: you're right, we are at an impasse. Especially after your last post...because I specifically remember reading AND hearing multiple interviews that say precisely the opposite of what you seem to believe. We also have an abundance of player data that prove the opposite of what you are saying.

You also seem to be totally upside down on how I'm classifying items. ALL things that drop in the game are items. ALL global changes to loot (such as this league) affects ALL loot i.e. ALL items (including maps, currency, etc.) WE KNOW THIS IS TRUE, by experience, by streamer testing, and all sorts of other data. It's irrefutable. This isn't the first time there has been a global change in drops, but it is certainly the biggest by far. It's THIS that caused all the uproar and chaos at league start. Curreny drops were WAY down, item drops were WAY down, map drops were WAY down. It was ALL down because reducing drop rate affected ALL items. This was far more than typical grumbling about map unsustainability which, I agree, we see a lot at league starts.

This does NOT mean that GGG can't adjust SPECIFIC item drops (such as my map explanation). Maps are a SUBSET of the overall items, and GGG can adjust any subset however they see fit. If you go to the overarching category (items) and change THAT, then it affects ALL the subsets. But if you change only the subset you want, it affects ONLY that subset. Hence, GGG buffed map drops without affecting other drops. Also how GGG buffed currency drops without buffing overall drops in 3.19 recent patches. But this patch, GGG blanket wiped quant and rarity and in so doing, blanket wiped ALL drops including maps and currency along with equippables.

Bottom Line: Maps are items, overall item drop is down = map drops are down. Unique drops are down, unique maps are unique items = unique map drops are down. You take nodes that increase unique map drop rate, it increases their drop rate but starting at the new, lower base drop rate. You may not like or want that, but functionally that is what happened and that is what GGG intended (For better or worse). We've already talked about WHY certain unique maps have more value and why more might be on the market. Pricing is a very difficult discussion to have because its not simply about rarity or usefulness (although those play major roles). It ALSO has to do with the state of the ENTIRE market, as well as the number of players, the number of players who can run those maps, the number of players who at this time might benefit from running that map, etc. So many variables that change every single league and thus change the cost of any "item" league after league.

And with that, I'll stop arguing.

Saw a loot goblin (Tukohama?) drop a unique map amongst other maps. With no mf, Safehouse, so no quant/rarity I think. So maybe if you embrace 'the vision' and go all out on mf those loot goblins will drop more unique maps?

Figure this is more relevant now then before.

Kirc isn't going to be as good of a source of the rarer unique maps anymore and they are removing AN loot explosions as well.

Please for the love of all that is holy, buff the unique map drop rate OR make the nodes in the tree way more impactful so we can invest into it.