Rework Death Penalty - Loose XP of/on CURRENT MAP.

Certain gitgud guys here always taking a chance to play tough at the cost of less experienced players and say how death penalty does not bother them, seen it in many threads.

Yet those guys always bolt when confronted with direct questions about why should they care about other people's progression, if they are supposedly not bothered at all. The only thing they actually want is more reasons to feel themselves "exceptional", thus they defend all difficulty hurdles that they themselves have overcome already.

In PoE, death cannot teach anything. No death recap, bad visibility in FX clutter, rippy mob dps even without mob critical hits (same AN mod can have much different damage when coming from different base monsters), possible lag/desync (should teach to get new PC?:)

your character dying always teaches you something even if its only that you aren't willing to look at why.

I won't dodge your question because I don't care about anybody elses progression, its easy for me to say though as my character gets deleted when dead :p. I will say the game is already generous with its failure margin so I can't see why zero penalty gameplay is seen as so desirable.

Its the same thing I always post in these threads, you are frustrated because its designed to frustrate you. GGG might gave on this in order to capture the casual dollar but currently it serves a gameplay purpose, the fact some players refuse to process that is just a design cost and there are absolutely players that would be just as unhappy if they didn't have any restrictions at all on their progress.

Some of us are unhappy if we don't have alot of restrictions lol

XP penalty on death is basically the only reason why people build defenses. Any decent glass canon can clear most maps without being hit.

It is ironic how Chinese poe client actually has death recap (afaik), along with pretty much all the QoL features asked on this forum. They have AH, auto loot pickup (divided by currency pets, magic pets, rare pets, etc), passive tree planner (not PoB but better than nothing), and other nice features.

While we must break our fingers clicking on each of thousand currency items because it is D2 spirit, lol.

Never thought it would be Tencent who would teach GGG how to actually treat their players with more respect. In today's interview Chris made a point about how GGG is different from generic transnational game corporations because GGG supposedly acts in the interests of the players first. Yet they won't bring QoL features they already have implemented in Chinese version to here, death recap included.

The death penalty wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't dropping dead, with nothing in sight, trying to pick up a piece of loot. Unless you are a seasoned hardcore player most people don't have a clue what is just randomly killing them. Or some of the boss mechanics can be pretty frustrating to figure out. Suddenly your 90% bar of XP is gone.

That's what makes the XP loss feel bad, and that's why players get frustrated. And I really don't get why hardcore players feel the need to come into every thread about this and tell players to git gud, and that they need punishment for dying. If most of the deaths in this game weren't total BS people wouldn't be complaining.

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PsychoKitty69 wrote:

If most of the deaths in this game weren't total BS people wouldn't be complaining.

The reason HC players come in and comment is because on HC you know that this isn't true so everytime it gets posted we roll our eyes at the capitulation of players who won't just examine what killed them then not die to that next time.

I know it looks horrendous but it very quickly gets to where you know exactly what killed you, an overwhelming majority of the game poses absolutely no threat to a developed build. I could hand you my molinger cocspin guy from Scourge and you would actively struggle to get him killed without deliberately going afk or something.

Deaths are pretty simple you don't even have to shadowplay if you take a screenshot of a dead character i can tell you what you died to 99/100. Its just experience it isn't impossible to learn from or nobody could play HC. At some point or other i've died to every common rip, eventually you build up what to do in the situations.

Note this isn't a git gud post, its a you can learn what threats will kill you and which can't if you are willing to commit to it instead of assuming you can't do so.

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if you take a screenshot of a dead character i can tell you what you died to 99/100

Once I died in a well-lit map (Terrace), which has relatively bright terrain material, with absolutely nothing on screen. It wasn't immediately after killing all mobs, no corpses or remains (using ice herald) were on the whole screen. Not dot pools also, some of them have visible debuff icon, I have burning ground immunity, and nothing short of boss dots can kill me in the blink of the eye. I can always see health degen and use healing flask. No ailments were on me too, they are also degen I can react to, especially on empty screen.

Yet I had just dropped dead like from oneshot. The only thing I can think of is maybe I missed effigy mob in the last pack (it was like 10 sec since last combat, I stopped to throw some trash out of inventory). So cannot imagine how people play hardcore in this mess.

Never argued that you can build around stacking all defense layers first, and only spend leftovers on dps. You can tank all bosses in the game too (idk about ubers, 0 knowledge of them). Yet I simply don't like to play armored brute with shield, and refuse to accept notion that players like me should have no place in this endgame at all. So I call it shitty design.

Knowing what AN mod killed you this time is not that useful on its own, because AN mods do different damage in the paws of different monsters, and trying to learn all basic mob models you can barely see at breakneck clearspeed is more than I am willing to give to this game.

GGG claims they carry on the glory of D2, but somehow I only see the worst features or D2 in PoE. D2 was great back in the time, when it first revolutionized ARPG genre, by now, it is nothing special.

Thanks to D2, we have:
- scrolls
- stone age manual loot pickup
- no combat logs of any kind
- exp penalty (pretending not to notice how much slower D2 gameplay was, and how mobs lacked advanced abilities with hitscan effects to spam en masse)

Yet we do not have monster personality that D2 had. I still remember each and every mob look and animations and native attacks from D2, although it has been many years. After 2 years of PoE I barely remember several models of common mobs, with no idea what they actually do, there is no point. At such gameplay speed you never look at mobs, only at yourself.

And AN killed what little personality and common sense those mobs had. a crab, a wolf, and a monkey can now weave same complex spells at you, lol.

Trust me its a cop out and if you take the time to learn the ropes thoroughly you too will understand that its a cop out but until then it looks totally unfair.

Just for example though you don't need to know what AN modifiers a monster has for almost every type, infact AN modifiers shouldn't even register as something aside from very specific monsters - sure you get toxic, lightning dudes and magma orbs chasing you 100% of the time but these require no additional steps once you accept they will be chasing you most of the time.

AN modifiers you care about - Party ring (mana siphon), Effigy, allies cannot die that's honestly about it, all other modifiers you play exactly the same as you do anyway so they don't even factor in.

Also D2 has a great many monsters with hitscan PoE has nearly zero because they would completely break the game, its Arc mages thats about it I think and they are pretty rare I don't even think they are allowed to spawn in stacks. Infact this is one of GGG's biggest mistakes because its why so many players get by playing glass cannon, I can play a zdefence 4k life character and i'll die maybe every 20 maps probably more - this is because correct movement with respect to monsters is nearly 100% damage reduction.

Completely agree AN killed mob identity, despite that though if the base mob type is easy they are still easy and a few of the worst offenders actually got easier. Harvest stacks for example are actually less deadly now than they used to be.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

I can play a zdefence 4k life character and i'll die maybe every 20 maps probably more - this is because correct movement with respect to monsters is nearly 100% damage reduction.

Yep, that was how I reached 99 on a zdefence, lol. And would have reached 100 if not for AN going core. In Standard, you are usually safe from GGG designers, but that was a solid kick in the gut :)

You are probably right that reading mobs more closely would help, but I don't have great smooth framerate in PoE (few have :)), so playing carefully all the time is impossible. Exp gain is so slow that you are bound to lose awareness eventually and wander close to pack of blighted mobs before they fire a salvo, not after. And even one effigy is enough to wipe a week of progress (not playing poe all day long).

So while I sincerely appreciate you offering constructive advice, and not "pfft, stupid plebs, what has the forum turned into (real case :))", exp penalty is still an archaic leftover that majority of PoE playerbase would probably want to be revised.

Moreover, I believe that the whole endgame state never was truly intended to be like it is now. What the "gitgud" people consider to be a testament to their greatness and made specially for them to showoff their skill is just an oversight. More likely, GGG had raised density once, and people immediately became addicted to those 500+ mob killstreaks, after which it was impossible to revert density without causing really massive uproar.

So GGG had no choice but to further dilute loot rates, buff mob damage to ruin any previous defense balance, and flatten exp gain curve. And exp penalty was designed before all that, in another balance, where you could actually see what is happening on screen. In the current gameplay it only drives people away. By 2022, all ARPG no-lifers on the planet should already be here, so revising the penalty won't diminish the self-proclaimed "target audience" anyway:)