Rework Death Penalty - Loose XP of/on CURRENT MAP.

make it only loose all XP of CURRENT MAP.

or make me loose all currency and ittems from the map, but not xp - that would actually really hit the ones currently "defending the penalty" cause it doesnt matter to them anymore!

if D4 this game will be dead otherwise, noone wants to "meta-waste-time" - i mean: playing a game is a waste of time - wasting time by not even wasting time with any progress is like meta waste of time.

no casual will stay in this game as soon as any valid competitors are out.

your game currently profits from the fact that there is no fresh competitor right now -

with the release of BG3 and or D4 this will be dead on arrival, no matter if d4 is an actual good game - it just has to be casual friendly and your player rates will drop - leaving the economy wasted cause no new players --> no new items/currency.

i also never met a hack and slay where you can play 8hrs ending up with less ep than before.

and stop talking about correct builds or stuff - defense layers are all

´just a chance to avoid dmg" - the only real defense layer working so far is spell supp 100% chance of a secure portion of dmg reduce

- which makes the game a slotmachine, where death is just a matter of time (or encounters) and thus is loosing xp just a matter of time or encounters.

either you rework the mid-tier gaming down so that people that dont do boss or uber or whatever can level at least to 95 or sth - or you remove the death penalty altogether (those who defend death penalty dont experience them anymore)

When will people realize that no matter what kind of point you are trying to make or discuss, no ammount of bullying, blackmailing or gaslighting will ever land you in a position acceptable to be listened to...

In case you are wondering which statements I refer to


Now for the actual post. You plead for a rework on death penalty and less punishment (here: EXP-Loss), but the true problem for YOU, if I understand your post correctly, is death in general (and an excessive ammount judging by your tone)

But before I also discuss why death penalty exist, and is quite timid, I have to commend that you, in a funny kind of way, made a worse, if not that then a lot more frustrating option for a death penalty =

- Lose all items and currency of the map. -
I am pretty sure you mean things that are "already dropped" or in your inventory, and not what potentially future drops would be, but I just want you to understand that the way you phrased it, I asume you want that monsters in the map, AS YOU DIED IN IT, can't drop anything anymore, all things are deleted from your inventory, and all items on the ground are deleted. Nothing, can, drop anymore. I'd laugh hysterically if they'd do this, but pray they never will, for your sake, that is.

The reasons why death penalties exist

1) Death doesn't become meaningless. And yes, in a game, death needs to have something going for (or against it I suppose), in order for the player to actively avoid it. If it starts to become meaningless, with no punishment, then, the game becomes a bit more dull. "Oh, I died. Who cares..." [Unless you are playing hardcore, but that's not on-topic here]

2) Death is supposed to be a learning TRIGGER. While I agree that the game can feel like throwing you unfair curveballs at you [Although that's a hilarious statement in of itself, because things like bosses are bosses because they get to do OP stuff that you, as a player, are forced to interact with appropriately], there is a good chunk in the player's power to mitigate, counter-act, reduce to laughable, or skillfully play around with.

Now, I took the liberty of checking some of your characters, and to your credit, some of your lvl 90 characters are really solidly built in terms of defenses, but a LOT of your others have awful items (There was a boot with 1 stat life, low movement speed and a single res with an armour type you don't even use dominantly support as a witch...), and I feel like these are the characters you struggle with the most. However, you play in standard, and if something consistently messes you up, and you can guarantee that it's not a skill-issue on your part, or plain recklessness, then I encourage you to post these EXACT CASES, because the majority of the game, is actually quite fair. Punishing for sure, but nevertheless fair.

Wow my guy, you are going to hit forum bingo. Not only do you ignore the ops point, but you do a needless gear inspection.

Anyway, I really wish your argument was the reality. I wish death xp loss was fair or useful. I wish being good at this game didn't mean spent more time or more currency. Where players could make some meaningful changes instead of what we have in current poe.

The xp loss serves no purpose for players. That is why it is always being asked to be reworked or removed. GGG added it in because they needed max level to be the chase goal, now we have the atlas and mapping, apparently. They didn't adjust it when they added 40% more exp needed to level like 90+.

It teaches nothing because it communicate nothing. Path already has plenty of failure states that teach way more, like losing a league mechanic timer. I would argue that 90% of players deaths are a complete mystery do to the wacky monster damage effectiveness ranges, which 3.18 only made worse. I wish bosses were as dangerous as walking into monster packs, where blue t16 mobs do more than shaper ( at least on 3.18 release) because at least that would be reactable

It is not entitlement to ask to keep xp in standard play. In fact people that die often need the levels more than people that have gg endgame 1000 exalt gear in every slot. Every patch ggg makes the game harder for everyone except the absolute minmixed hypocritical players that keep opining how the game is so easy while buying carries with rmt currency. You see it in every mmo game honestly.

I am honestly interested to see if GGG ever makes their game less tedious, and removing xp loss on death would do that.

the actual truth is that people would play PoE with or without the death penalty (which was harsher in the beginning, so u know.)

From Krillson himself: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/477123?fbclid=IwAR2y54VrDLheaIWvSWH-beJeVo_0q-qBZwRM5kBIQ-JtcpUxjO-F9jOXxMU

Dont die. Git gud

"

Taeschi_86 wrote:

make it only loose all XP of CURRENT MAP.

or make me loose all currency and ittems from the map, but not xp - that would actually really hit the ones currently "defending the penalty" cause it doesnt matter to them anymore!

if D4 this game will be dead otherwise, noone wants to "meta-waste-time" - i mean: playing a game is a waste of time - wasting time by not even wasting time with any progress is like meta waste of time.

no casual will stay in this game as soon as any valid competitors are out.

your game currently profits from the fact that there is no fresh competitor right now -

with the release of BG3 and or D4 this will be dead on arrival, no matter if d4 is an actual good game - it just has to be casual friendly and your player rates will drop - leaving the economy wasted cause no new players --> no new items/currency.

i also never met a hack and slay where you can play 8hrs ending up with less ep than before.

and stop talking about correct builds or stuff - defense layers are all

´just a chance to avoid dmg" - the only real defense layer working so far is spell supp 100% chance of a secure portion of dmg reduce

- which makes the game a slotmachine, where death is just a matter of time (or encounters) and thus is loosing xp just a matter of time or encounters.

either you rework the mid-tier gaming down so that people that dont do boss or uber or whatever can level at least to 95 or sth - or you remove the death penalty altogether (those who defend death penalty dont experience them anymore)

We not need the casual!

Move on friend , D4 is awaiting !

"

Taeschi_86 wrote:

...
i also never met a hack and slay where you can play 8hrs ending up with less ep than before.
...

You clearly did not play Diablo 2.

"

6_din_49 wrote:

"

Taeschi_86 wrote:

...
i also never met a hack and slay where you can play 8hrs ending up with less ep than before.
...

You clearly did not play Diablo 2.

d2 had a different learning curve.

the problem as you say is: death is a trigger for learning.


i cant learn shit without a damage log.

i cant learn shit if i hit a scaling wall with a build that worked just fine like "until now"

d2 had limited builds, the build have been clear and basically everything "worked"


in this game you have a ton of options that all dont work, besides either investing external money or switching over to a meta build.


actually i have no problem with death at all - i dont want death to go away.


but i have a problem with loosing XP of previous maps that i managed to play well on maps that i currently not play well. this map is hard - i should not get xp then okay - but loosing xp from the last like 3-8 days because i fail this map is just stupid.


thats why im in for a penalty and a learning trigger - i will try to learn if i loose like a whole map of xp, its not necessary to take my efford away from yesterday ...

also:


you cant learn shit in this game - theres no damage log, map tiers mean nothing, one specific mod on a mob can break your whole build.

just yesterday i had this: i can farm t16 maps, but trying to get a lost crafting receipt on a t5 map i encountered a boneshatter mob that onehitted me. it took me three runs just to READ what his mod actually was.


this game is way to fast for any learning stuff - i can hardly identify any debuff or ground stuff or whatever before i die, cause WHEN i die, i die instantly. or i just dont ever get touched.

and after playing for two years i still cant say why an 99% evasive build works just like 8hrs straignt, encounters one specific mob that suddenly herrasses me to death.


the game is way to loaded with "stuff" (mods, speed, groundstuff, debuffs, etc etc) to actually learn WHAT killed me actually.

i can heave less or worse guesses on what may have killed me.


all these factors tell me that a death penalty, esp one that "shall trigger learning" is basically unjustified in a game that doesnt even let you know hwat killed you and what circumstances may have lead to it.


i have many lvl 90 chars, i really learnt a lot in this game, esp how bad the defense layers are designed so you can never reach a reasonable "baseline of permanent reliable damage reduction" - but anyway, i have fully fleshed out armor/evasion chars with full block that STILL get nuked by a random "attackspeed+critC+critmulti" whitemob - cause this combo basically can roll so many attacks per second that it WILL ecentuall pass through all you % chance to damage reduction layers - cause its only a matter of time and mobcount.


this is how i end up killing t16 map bosses with ease, but a random white mob with speed+crit+critmulti will nuke me - and thats rediculous design that i never encountered in any other game so far.

the most rediculous thing in d2 was basically mobs beeing defenetly immune to your damage type - it was clearly readable and you know you had to pass those mobs.


here i encountered resist mobs, that clearly state "vulnerable to fire" that i was unable to kill with fire, but switching to my lowlevel cold char made them die. (i sus this is some kind of bug with the vulnerability beeing actually res on top)



nevertheless: all this combined doesnt justify a death penalty thats aimed at me for "playing bad" - cause its not about "playing bad" its just that i cant get better gear other than by buying from external sources. cause nothing i can play will ever drop anything close to my current setup or god forbid, be an upgrade to what i actually use.

so no this death penalty isnt aimed at playing bad, its aimed at beeing to poor to buy the BiS gear for the build iwant to play - so either play meta - or buy stuff.

it has literally nothing to do with beeing bad gameplaywise.

and basically the only people defending this kind of penalty are the ones that profit from it and at the same time have at least 1 lvl 100 char that can farm without beeing subject to the xp loss penalty anymore:


the death penalty drives people not into "working builds" but in those few builds that you hold items on that are very expensive, cause GGG designes the difficulty of the game around those very few metas - or around heavily investing money into your custom build.

___

thats why i jokingly suggested a death penalty that actually hit everyone regardless of level: loosing all so far dropped items on ground and inventory. you farmed 3 exas and dies on the boss? poof no loot only that from the boss - if you killed it.

i dont see why people cant level their way through death but people are allowed to actually farm through death. ?! i dont see why the one is favorable above the other (other than GGG appeasing old players over new ones of course)

cause that would actually hit everyone equally bad - without hindering progression in levels. since the most progression after 100 is done by gaining items, i think its fair that players that are 100 also get a penalty for playing bad.

cause currently the penalty only has two goals, intentional or not:


forcing players into specific builds and thereby specific items (that the top 1% holds their grapplers on - cause they are longer in the game, can farm faster, and therefore hold the economy for progression)

and making people play longer to actually get to lvl 100 (cause basically every rpg hack and slay is basically reaching max level first, then build up on that)

the problem is that the developer and even chris wilson deny that there is someone complaining about any penalties
because chris wilson is only reading reddit like all the other devs