[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback

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Toudi_Ogr wrote:

RANT

Good riddance.

...The sheer complexity of the changes GGG are considering in these manifesto threads should quell ANYONE claiming the beta is over. These are pretty big. They are, quite literally, game-changing.

These are not things you should be doing in a release.

I have to admit I'm probably not all that interested in the many replies, because I find the manifesto threads really quite comprehensive.

The next few months should be quite interesting.

On the loot system

Any chance of getting names added back in the alternative system? Many of those Ive talked to really miss this feature.

Ranged/Melee defence balance

I'm starting to think I play a different game than everyone else. While yes melee must get close to mobs to attack, you have to remember that mobs dont care type of character you are. mobs dont "go for the melee" unless youve used enduring cry. Also yes ranged/caster can and should use movement as an active defence, however I cant remember the last time I did a map that didnt have anti-kiting mobs in it (puncture/flicker mobs). Theres nothing to stop melee using movement too and flanking mobs.

Please help me understand why melee characters should have access to more defence over ranged characters? (oh btw I play melee/ranged and casters and they all get the same aggro from mobs) No sarcasm^^ Ive been scratching my head trying to think how people are in this frame of mind.

To me PoE is path of life nodes, no matter what class you play, (outside of a couple of niche builds that is) you must invest heavily in life%, at the expense of ..well everything else. Coupled to this, elemental attacks rule all, which basically dictates that you are going to need to goto the templar area no matter where you start. The tree imo is lopsided, its too leftside heavy, right side has too much crit.

bleh, i will add more later, still trying to fathom the whole melee thing.

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Charan wrote:

...The sheer complexity of the changes GGG are considering in these manifesto threads should quell ANYONE claiming the beta is over. These are pretty big. They are, quite literally, game-changing.

These are not things you should be doing in a release.

I have to admit I'm probably not all that interested in the many replies, because I find the manifesto threads really quite comprehensive.

The next few months should be quite interesting.

I am not really interested in what u think either.

PVP need to be fixed before ranking and stuff starts.This game atm is sort of 1 hit kill which is PVP killer i think (or not even 1 hit if u use traps),also matchmaking sux.I think that dmg in pvp need to be reduced for atleast 50%.Atm if archer hit u before u come close to him(shadow) u are soo dead.Dmg need to be reduced in PVP

Melee Feedback.

melee nodes that are far to specific, dont ever seem to offer much reason to go to those nodes. some sword nodes give things like 18% increased damage - if you use a sword - but these kinda nodes are often buried in long lines of sub-par nodes, so getting 1 ok node, leads to using 4 bad nodes, to get 1 ok nod, then its almost always a node that leads to a dead end, where theres no HP nodes around, no interesting keystones, just dead ends.

pretty much every popular build in the game, avoids weapon specific nodes for those reasons, they are buried to far into lines of nodes that just dont feel like they do much.

theres a secondary thing - its extremely hard to get both crit - and accuracy, so people tend to ignore crit completly, and just go resolute technique - which instantly makes all accuracy and crit nodes useless.
a simple solution for this would be - dont make crit nodes a zillion miles away from accuracy nodes and dont bury them in hard to justify areas where theres little to spec for in the area.

then theres endurance charges - which are far too clunky and under used in melee, which makes no sense, its extremely easy to build and work with power charges, and theres a ton to do with frenzy charges, and they are extremely easy to get and maintain with some getting use to... so why do endurance charges remain so clunky and weird, when clearly, making charges workable - isnt much of a issue.
give better options for endurance charges, so they feel more benificial, and not like a annoyance that takes you out of the fight.

Wanna say some...

1.About making monsters have the ability to deal area of effect damage
- Sounds very interesting but please take a little care about monster auras. All the auras of monster way too power full. There're some combine make a simple white group mods become over power, just like added 80%+ cold damage combine with add chance to crit and crit damage auras. It will be impossible to survive if a physic monster has aoe damage and combine with those damage mods.
- Please don't say that i need to improve my defences cause my EK with 85 all res, 5.6k hp, 25k armour without pot and montel shell got perma frozen till die when mess up with the a white group mods having icy aura of mountain ledge's unique boss combine with crit chance aura.

2.About melee build for leveling
- I got a lot of experiences about defences of a character and its likely impossible to build up a melee char having enough defences and dps at the same time. Due to physic reduction fomula likely unbearable for a huge damage of physic mod on high maps. It required to spent all the skill points on defence nodes to be tanky enough and become a top-tier player. If the melee physic nodes will be improved ppl still rather to improve their build around survivability than taking a lot of damage nodes. Because died in hc or losing 15% exp on high level hurt a lot while partying can solve the problem of damage... and yes the choice still defence nodes. If the defences nodes will be improved melee can get enough defences earlier and they will spend their points on dmg nodes for sure (just resistant, armour and evation. Cause i think that kaom's heart was breaking the balance of hp nodes a bit, rework hp nodes with reduce the percent and plus a bit of fixed life point may improve it).
- And one more thing, it was about PvP system. Improve a lot on physic nodes may break over the PvP system, cause melee build being the strongest in 1v1. We can see it clearly that over 80% PvPer being melee.
- Back about physic reduction, i know that you are the deverlopers were all carefully calculation about it and yes it possible to be tank cause im already doing it atm. Having 25k armour with 5 enduring charges the unique boss usually hit me with 3~4k hp (depent on the mod of maps)now only hit me with 3~4k hp. But it really a big sacified when no support dps nodes even when lv.80+

3.About the latency, desync etc...
- Being a progam engineer and had lots of experiences in online gaming, i just can only say that you are GGG deverlopers doing very very well. Im happy playing with 250ms+ latency and desync is aceptable cause the server too far far away(Singapore gateway) but i got suprised when log-in my account in another place which have better internet connection there was only 100~120ms.
- We can all see that Diablo3 seperate player from EU, SEA and US. Dota2 doing the same thing too. This game work so better so far from what i imaged when first know about this game.

...to tired and sleepy. Just stop atm

So I understand the whole passive vs active skill argument and i understand that
BUT a possible solution help to melee builds could be adding a physical reflect aura.

Maybe even make it scale with thorns so that they aren't completely useless.

OR passive keystones with big reflect buffs?

Just an idea.

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Knight_of_the_Revelation wrote:

I am not really interested i what u think either.

Then don't reply next time, genius. :P

My point was, normally I *am* very interested in the replies -- or have you not noticed me posting in various threads replying to people? In this one case, I think it best to read that manifesto and just see how much of it GGG can fulfill rather than engage in lengthy dialogue about what is essentially just propositions and offerings.

In short, while this is in the beta feedback board, it's not really beta feedback. It's feedback to features and changes not even made yet.

I can see why people are commenting like crazy, but now that GGG have started to place their chips on the table, so to speak, I recommend a little patience to see if their hand is up to it rather than exploding into responses and commentary.

That's just how I feel. It really has nothing to do with what you think, and much more to do with what GGG does next.

Was nice to read! I really appreciate how the develop team communicates with the community.

But I'm still waiting the manifestos that explain RNG changes, so crafting becomes really craft and less casino game, changes on loot since, as someone said before, its horrible playing solo (not as manifesto say) to make this game more rewarding instead of making us hit walls continually because we can't find gear upgrades even farming hours, and not even any good currency to waste it on "crafting", your purpose is to give us a fun game, and the balance from fun and frustrating is wrong on this game.

We feel scammed when using alchemy or chaos orbs instead of trading them, so its easy to see that something is broken. Make them drop much more, the market will adjust himself, if you remove the gold from game mechanics, don't replace it with currency... The first purpose is to use orbs on our items and gems, not stashing them to see how "rich" we are. With decent drop (and I would say like x3 on all orbs from alch), gambling shouldnt be a problem anymore, and we will fell that we progress by ourselves making our own items.

I think this is as important as melee and path of life nodes fixes. The game should feel rewarding for the time we invest on it, not punishing continuously until the player leave the game (see D3).