[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback

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Martinezz123 wrote:

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please increase rarity for solo play just a tiny bit, its really annoying killing really hard rare mobs and getting 3 whites

+1

+1

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Offensive passive skills for melee builds (i.e. weapon specific ones) will probably be improved in some way. Note that we can't just add "melee defensive" passives, because there's nothing to stop ranged characters from picking them.

Why would ranged characters want to pick up nodes that give slightly less defense than regular defense nodes and give offensive bonuses they don't benefit from at all? Or even more than slightly less, the idea being that the cumulative effect of the minor defense tied into offensive nodes would in the long run provide the boost melee needs to stay in melee.

The problem with maps is that the lvl cap for the game is 100 but act 3 stops at monster lvl 64 or something. Making low level maps easier to get is good but that doesn't solve the problem. Players want a way to continue to progress past Act 3 merciless in level while still having fun and feeling like they are getting somewhere. White items from high level maps are so expensive because few players even get there to collect them.

Making a way for players to grind for xp and not item drops would be a bad idea imo. If you are not getting many or any item drops and you die in SC and lose xp, you are effectively wasting time. With the XP penalty, giving a way for players to gain in lvl but not get good loot could be potentially frustrating and pointless. The only reason to gain in level is to play higher level content and get higher level items. Even if you did manage to gain a few levels without dying in SC and losing xp, you would still have to go back to your lower level maps to farm items. And those items wouldn't have any added value cause you are at a higher level, you might even get less xp from the areas if you are at a high enough lvl. I can't stress this enough that the feeling of going nowhere (losing more xp than gained, lvl 80 and having a hard time retaining maps higher than lvl 66-70) is what makes people quit their character. If you lose xp, you should usually be able to be consoled that at least you got some ok items that day. If you get crap items, you should usually still be able to console yourself that at least you gained some xp today. By making it harder for those things to occur simultaneously, the game would become less fun.

The game can still be hard and punishing like it is, but allow players to consistently do content at or around their character lvl. Most games allow people to do this for free. In this game, at higher character levels, the ability to do content at or around your lvl is treated as extremely rare (unless you play all the time/spend large amounts of time trading and selling loot for currency/are a streamer/play in a guild or huge play group where you share drops). This seems completely backwards to me. I feel like, with a moderate amount of skill (solo or multiplayer), a player should slowly be able to reach higher and higher level content, instead of being constantly sucked down to play low level content only to be able to slowly progress back to their own level.

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Odoakar wrote:

The only thing I found questionable was claiming the loot drop situation is fine for solo players. It is not. It's actually horrible, with very few currency and uniques dropping, especially compared to party play.

Double concerning.

Btw, the manifesto isn't complete yet. I like how all the subsequent topics were viewed by more people than the Please Read.

I want to know about how currency/crafting will be altered.

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deteego wrote:

Actually, PoE needs more reactive defensive abilities rather than the passive ones we have now. Things like warcry and EC and whatnot are passive, you cast them pre battle and they give you some benefit during the battle

Reactive defensive abilities are things like instant shields. Abilities that give you very quick invulnerability for a short amount of time, things like that. The only things that come close are granits/utility flasks, and they really aren't abilities. Have a look at monk in Diablo 3 for some inspiration. The only thing that PoE has in comparison is molten shield, and with its insane casting time + fact its incredibly weak defensively late game (mainly because the shield basically instant pops due to the sheer amount), its not really used very effectively past cruel as a defensive ability (in fact with MS popping so often, its basically used as an AoE nuke)

I think at the end of the day, what is most likely going to happen is that the different mechanics (apart from life) will get heavy adjustment, particularly armor and evasion. This will also happen to fix the path of life nodes issue

Yes, needs reactive abilities, like 50% chance to regeneration 800 HP over 3 second or some other defensive ability when hit by a critical, that sort of stuff I was thinking about.

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dspair wrote:

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We will not add a keystone that restricts you to only melee damage but provides a defensive boost, because that would be a mandatory pick for all melee characters and that's not how our keystones are meant to be designed.

It's funny because there is a passive called Resolute Technique.

Indeed, because I was thinking it could be resolved with a series of buff effect passives that on different parts of the tree. Like 5-10% chance to gain +% evasion, +% armour, on hit/when hit/critical or some stuff like that.

I like how Devouring Totem sort of tries to be like a healer. Skill wise, it could have been a Totem that removes x% of health when (uses HP to cast, NOT mana), when you drop to 50% health, totem dies automatically, 150% of casting cost is regenerated back to you over time. If totem is killed it will prematurely give you health back.

Regarding desync, client needs to talk to server and do calculations, that's issue. There are a few fighting games that use GGPO system for online play, and that uses save states so it takes multiple snapshots compares both player's inputs and syncs it so it can smooth out any potential severe desync issues and at the same time your inputs feel very accurate. But even this had a slider that gave players the option on how smooth or choppy it would look. Smooth - looks better, but may rubber band more. Choppy - looks worse but rubber bands far less.

Suggestion about maps - why isn't a random level 66 map a quest reward from Lady Dialla in Merciless after doing all her quests? It's conceivable even up to this point you might not have a map. My biggest issues is that you need maps to get more maps.

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magier556 wrote:

I honestly do not agree that solo players get more loot, as solo players need to dump way too much currency to roll the higher maps , they barely get the currency back. While group players have to roll much less maps.

Agreed to an extent because you pretty much need quantity/rarity solo. What I find is that I could be in a level 69 map and only lower level maps drop. I don't get it.

I also don't want maps to be "just it".

I'm very interested in hearing about Races/PvP even tho' I didn't participate as much as I would have liked.

Awaiting news about trading and crafting.

How I feel about crafting - out of control. People might mention fusings/socking stuff, and I agree about at least 4 linking stuff should be more likely. I would like to see another currency orb and chromatics give a very very low chance to give single white socket - only one - it would roll with probability with item type bias. The item type bias is the great bugbear of chromatics. With the amount of chromatics you put into an item and the very low chance you could gain a single white socket, if it happens great. Even when I try to roll on an item type with very realistic expectations you could easily spend 60 chromatics into an item. Only using chromatics can chance a white socket, so jewellers can't item drops or vendor store it doesn't happen. How impactful will it be on chromatic price? Slightly more added value but over time the same. I don't sell chromatics because I like having a crap load for the very reason of being screwed around and just change sockets for support characters. Also people rolling sockets on a 6 link might be more inclined to roll their chromatics to get a white socket. Items with white sockets get the added value, not really chromatics from the change.

The alternative was to make chromatics roll individual sockets or roll all sockets, but would you vendor chromatics to make a new currency like-a-chromatic to roll a socket and would be a random socket? Eh, mind flew away at that point.

The other currency item I had was one above value of Exalted because I didn't like how Mirror straight up cuts out the BS of crafting, which should be better. An item that transfers mods of a magic/rare item into a white item of same type, so Evasion armour to Evasion armour, 1h Axe to 1h Axe, can be a better base item but has to be same itemlevel or higher and destroys the item it copies the mods from. It's powerful because you can take awesome mods from one item to another, but it has to be the same type, and the item you transfer to has to be white and higher itemlevel so you can't make a low itemlevel item have mods it couldn't possibly roll, also you can't have better mods because the transference makes the itemlevel the same as the item you transferred from. Unless there is an orb that get introduced that randomly erases a mod, I like this even tho' it would have much higher scarcity than Exalteds. I just don't like how you have Exalteds which have more value in purchasing than usage, then lottery ticket for currency tiers.

I like to read more that may be introduced into the manifesto. Good times ahead.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/327349

I believe I posted the majority of my feedback regarding treasure chests in that thread, I could post highlights but feel like it is its own issue even if it is closely related to loot and things.

Loved the idea about doing maps solely for exp. Like where you're heading with that beta manifesto. Enjoyed reading it. Keep up the good work.

to anyone saying no rubberbanding in diablo 3:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diablo+3+rubberbanding&oq=diablo+3+rubberbanding&gs_l=youtube.3..0.216.7484.0.7584.30.20.1.9.9.0.195.1639.17j3.20.0...0.0...1ac.1.lFnoQg-i6YI

~800 vids

https://www.google.com/search?q=diablo+3+rubberbanding&aq=f&oq=diablo+3+rubberbanding&aqs=chrome.0.57j60j0j61j0l2.3330j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

11,000 results on google search

and thats for a game WITH NO UNIT COLLISION

many streamers died in d3 to rubberbanding on hardcore, and they are run by a billion dollar company

In addition to the new loot rules, please add a way so maps drop with an indefinite timer for the maker. People will NEVER run public maps until this is done. And i want to! Also, make it so 6 socket / 6 link / 5 links drop allocated with a timer.

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In addition to the new loot rules, please add a way so maps drop with an indefinite timer for the maker. People will NEVER run public maps until this is done. And i want to!

Second. Maybe make this an option for people who create public games.

I have to further support that the adding of aoe to more mobs, while it may solve making parties have a harder time, is not something that summoners need as they already get wrecked by aoe damage usually because the minions are too stupid to realize that they are standing on a burning patch of ground or similar.

With their ai being stupid / slow at times aside the only way to buff their survivability currently is the necromantic aegis passive at the cost of your shield, minion life support gem, NOT taking minion instability at the cost of dps, the minion life % nodes, and auras. That all not counting any cc effect that you may or may not be appliying which is unlikely as your damage may be too low to inflict said status effect.

Most of those you don't get till late game so early on, due also to current minion scaling, till around level 30ish survivability of minions is low. From then till high maps summons are fairly strong in surviving with some issues of incoming aoe damage at points. In high maps your minions may be able to take a fair amount of damage but when encountering heavy aoe mobs that apply status effects in 10-30 seconds all your minions can be gone and you have to flee to go get more.

Noted that ranged/righteous-fire-mob specters and minion instability are some of the main / popular damage sources for summoners due to issues that the other summons face.

Another idea for the physical crit is a armour debuff kind of like a shock stack but for armour. Say 10% or something. Another idea is a bleed dot. I wouldn't be too happy with a guaranteed stun..... as of now if you crit you almost surely stun anyways.