Making a solution for endurance charge stealing, for the average slow and sturdy build enjoyer.

"

RedHenrik wrote:

Another use for endurance charges is to mitigate damage from physical damage over time, which completely bypasses armor.

Dear RedHenrik,
That is a very valid point!
Corrupted blood, Bleeding, Phys DoTs and Blood Rage deal absolutely no damage with 90% phys from non armour sources!
Thanks for the reply <3

Bud the reason you think your 20/20 is better is because you literally have almost no armour on your character. Your chest piece has no armour and neither does your helm. The 40% mitigation on the chest is not nearly as good as you think for this build. Your Unbreakable ascendancy is basically wasted because your chest piece has no armour on it. You don't even have an armour% suffix on your flasks.

There's a reason if you pull up the PoE Ninja folks playing this, there is not a single person playing that chest piece because you will get far more mitigation from an actual armour piece with high armour.

I've played Boneshatter before, I know how it works. If you slap on a Brass Dome, roll some high armour onto your gear (Crown of the Inward Eye is great and cheap/easy to farm if you can't get a better helm), grab Defiance Banner, and use an 8/20, you'll stop killing yourself even when your endurance charges go down.

It's moot saying your 20/20 300 stacks will do a bit more damage because you cannot survive currently when they take your charges. It's also an unfair comparison to do 300 stacks at 8/20 vs. 300 at 20/20 because an 8/20 will allow you to get much higher stacks than a 20/20 and that's why the damage difference between the 2 is small.

In any case, it's your choice. You can keep believing your setup is superior and carry on with complaining about not having a way to keep up endurance charges. Or you can try what I'm suggesting.

"

TemjinGold wrote:

Bud the reason you think your 20/20 is better is because you literally have almost no armour on your character. Your chest piece has no armour and neither does your helm. The 40% mitigation on the chest is not nearly as good as you think for this build. Your Unbreakable ascendancy is basically wasted because your chest piece has no armour on it. You don't even have an armour% suffix on your flasks.

There's a reason if you pull up the PoE Ninja folks playing this, there is not a single person playing that chest piece because you will get far more mitigation from an actual armour piece with high armour.

I've played Boneshatter before, I know how it works. If you slap on a Brass Dome, roll some high armour onto your gear (Crown of the Inward Eye is great and cheap/easy to farm if you can't get a better helm), grab Defiance Banner, and use an 8/20, you'll stop killing yourself even when your endurance charges go down.

It's moot saying your 20/20 300 stacks will do a bit more damage because you cannot survive currently when they take your charges. It's also an unfair comparison to do 300 stacks at 8/20 vs. 300 at 20/20 because an 8/20 will allow you to get much higher stacks than a 20/20 and that's why the damage difference between the 2 is small.

In any case, it's your choice. You can keep believing your setup is superior and carry on with complaining about not having a way to keep up endurance charges. Or you can try what I'm suggesting.

Dear TemjinGold,
I will thank you for your input so far, maybe I will try your suggestions next league, it just seems weird to me that there are sources that remove all your charges in a single hit.
This is not a problem when the screen is cleared in one go, but for slower endurance charge stacking characters this is unreasonable to the point that stacking endurance charges is pointless, and that's what this thread is about.

I did read your suggestions and I am open to try new things, and maybe I'm a bit defensive of my build, but I have loved your imput and want to thank you for it <3

"

kevino140 wrote:

Dear RedHenrik,
That is a very valid point!
Corrupted blood, Bleeding, Phys DoTs and Blood Rage deal absolutely no damage with 90% phys from non armour sources!
Thanks for the reply <3

Not a direct continuation, but I noticed that you got to level 93, which is not always easy, especially when trying to figure out gear. I've never played Boneshatter myself, so I had to look it up to see that, in fact, it does count as being hit, so armor applies. So I learned something today. Good luck with the build.

"

RedHenrik wrote:

"

kevino140 wrote:

Dear RedHenrik,
That is a very valid point!
Corrupted blood, Bleeding, Phys DoTs and Blood Rage deal absolutely no damage with 90% phys from non armour sources!
Thanks for the reply <3

Not a direct continuation, but I noticed that you got to level 93, which is not always easy, especially when trying to figure out gear. I've never played Boneshatter myself, so I had to look it up to see that, in fact, it does count as being hit, so armor applies. So I learned something today. Good luck with the build.

The really cool thing is that boneshatter can trigger cwdt.

It doesn't make much sense to create a solution to a problem you created.

You could fix that issue by simply optimizing your gear and getting more damage, which your build alredy lacks, severely.

More over, charge stealing is a problem everyone has to deal with, and making one specifically for your type of build doesn't make sense when other simpler solutions alredy exist.

For example, investing in duration for Boneshatter makes sense, but it's entirely suboptimal because the game has far better ways to scale it's damage. All those nodes would be more effectively used in impale/phys nodes. Enhance as a main 6l is also a huge mistake, supports like Multistrike, Melee Phys, Close Combat (if used with axe/sword) can double your dps. Lifetap and efficacy for Enduring cry also feel entirely suboptimal, to not say borderline useless.

I'm not saying give up on Boneshatter, nor trying to undermine you, i'm just saying to optimize your setup so you don't feel the need to create solutions to problems you shouldn't have.

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

It doesn't make much sense to create a solution to a problem you created.

You could fix that issue by simply optimizing your gear and getting more damage, which your build alredy lacks, severely.

More over, charge stealing is a problem everyone has to deal with, and making one specifically for your type of build doesn't make sense when other simpler solutions alredy exist.

For example, investing in duration for Boneshatter makes sense, but it's entirely suboptimal because the game has far better ways to scale it's damage. All those nodes would be more effectively used in impale/phys nodes. Enhance as a main 6l is also a huge mistake, supports like Multistrike, Melee Phys, Close Combat (if used with axe/sword) can double your dps. Lifetap and efficacy for Enduring cry also feel entirely suboptimal, to not say borderline useless.

I'm not saying give up on Boneshatter, nor trying to undermine you, i'm just saying to optimize your setup so you don't feel the need to create solutions to problems you shouldn't have.

Dear AdRonZh3Ro,
Thanks for the reply! I appreciate these alot!

I have seen a few posts of people getting tired of monsters stealing their charges, but it is indeed the problem the build I made has.

The build has, at 300 stacks, according to PoB, 5.8+ mil sirus dps, which is not too shabby I'd say, and in-game I've reached above 20 mil dps (this is ofcourse what the skill in-game shows).

I've created this thread to make a solution for Endurance Charge steal and removal because it feels over the top compared to frenzy and power charges, the frenzy en power charges only add damage whilst endurance charges add survivability which some characters are reliant on, in my case.

The added duration has two goals in the build, one for Boneshatter ofcourse, and one for Enduring Cry, so the Endurance Charges become stronger.
Since the built is stacking trauma for both healing and damage from Trauma and Mantra of Flames, Impale/phys dmg do not add much and end up only costing passive points in the current setup I have made.
The Enhance is to increase the attack speed gain from trauma to 2% currently.
And since the setup has a whopping five mana to spend, every skill has a Lifetap support, Efficacy on Enduring Cry is for the buff duration so it is up well over 100% of the time.

I never have the feeling of someone trying to undermine me or my work :D, when someone is posting a reply it means to me that they have seen and read what I have proposed.
This means that they have given a serious thought to this thread and I can only thank people like you who make posts <3

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

It doesn't make much sense to create a solution to a problem you created.

You could fix that issue by simply optimizing your gear and getting more damage, which your build alredy lacks, severely.

More over, charge stealing is a problem everyone has to deal with, and making one specifically for your type of build doesn't make sense when other simpler solutions alredy exist.

For example, investing in duration for Boneshatter makes sense, but it's entirely suboptimal because the game has far better ways to scale it's damage. All those nodes would be more effectively used in impale/phys nodes. Enhance as a main 6l is also a huge mistake, supports like Multistrike, Melee Phys, Close Combat (if used with axe/sword) can double your dps. Lifetap and efficacy for Enduring cry also feel entirely suboptimal, to not say borderline useless.

I'm not saying give up on Boneshatter, nor trying to undermine you, i'm just saying to optimize your setup so you don't feel the need to create solutions to problems you shouldn't have.

No for his version of Boneshatter (scaling stacks above all else), he's using the right supports because maxing duration of stacks will mean he can get way more of them at once. He's just going about mitigating his self-damage wrong mostly.

OP: If you are set on mitigating it your way, Jugg is a waste to be honest. You are far better off with a Chieftain (Valako, Tasalio, Ramako, Hinekora). Jugg focuses on armour while chief focuses on regen and leech. Both work with endurance charges. If you steal Unflinching from Jugg using Forbidden Flame / Forbidden Flesh, you'll have the best of both.

Get Call to Arms and put Enduring Cry on left-click. That way you don't need to be hit to gain your endurance charges--you can gain them every time you warcry. And when they steal your charges, you will get a 15% more damage buff.

Alternatively, instead of Ramako and Hinekora, you can use Tukohama and Arohongui. Grab Ancestral Protector and Warchief with Multi totem. If you use the alt qual of both totems, Tukohama scales their buff insanely (which will give you way more attack speed than you currently have). You can also annoint Panopticon if you haven't.

"

TemjinGold wrote:

"

AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

It doesn't make much sense to create a solution to a problem you created.

You could fix that issue by simply optimizing your gear and getting more damage, which your build alredy lacks, severely.

More over, charge stealing is a problem everyone has to deal with, and making one specifically for your type of build doesn't make sense when other simpler solutions alredy exist.

For example, investing in duration for Boneshatter makes sense, but it's entirely suboptimal because the game has far better ways to scale it's damage. All those nodes would be more effectively used in impale/phys nodes. Enhance as a main 6l is also a huge mistake, supports like Multistrike, Melee Phys, Close Combat (if used with axe/sword) can double your dps. Lifetap and efficacy for Enduring cry also feel entirely suboptimal, to not say borderline useless.

I'm not saying give up on Boneshatter, nor trying to undermine you, i'm just saying to optimize your setup so you don't feel the need to create solutions to problems you shouldn't have.

No for his version of Boneshatter (scaling stacks above all else), he's using the right supports because maxing duration of stacks will mean he can get way more of them at once. He's just going about mitigating his self-damage wrong mostly.

OP: If you are set on mitigating it your way, Jugg is a waste to be honest. You are far better off with a Chieftain (Valako, Tasalio, Ramako, Hinekora). Jugg focuses on armour while chief focuses on regen and leech. Both work with endurance charges. If you steal Unflinching from Jugg using Forbidden Flame / Forbidden Flesh, you'll have the best of both.

Get Call to Arms and put Enduring Cry on left-click. That way you don't need to be hit to gain your endurance charges--you can gain them every time you warcry. And when they steal your charges, you will get a 15% more damage buff.

Alternatively, instead of Ramako and Hinekora, you can use Tukohama and Arohongui. Grab Ancestral Protector and Warchief with Multi totem. If you use the alt qual of both totems, Tukohama scales their buff insanely (which will give you way more attack speed than you currently have). You can also annoint Panopticon if you haven't.

Dear TemjinGold,
thanks for the post! <3

Firstly i'd like to thank you for a previous post where you recommended a lvl 8 Boneshatter gem, I have tried it out and after some minor tweaks in armor (and some more to come just not today) and it was effective, so thanks!
The damage to self without Endurance Charges was managable at 200 stacks, after this point the damage gets too much with current armor and setup.
I have added a Defiance Banner in the setup instead of Herald of Ash but have yet to test it, I was also thinking of switching the minor god in the Pantheon.
Currently i'm using Soul of Yugul for reflect reduction and effect of curse reduction (currently curse immune aka 100% reduction), but i'm thinking of Soul of Gruthkul (1% phys reduction up to 5% when hit recently, can probably self trigger with Boneshatter for solid uptime) and Soul of Tukohama (while stationary gain 3% phys reduction up to 9%, less reliable but able to go higher in phys reduction).

Your proposal for chieftan is quite nice with alot of quality of life aspects to it, but I will currently not be testing it since it would take too much time right now but if I can't sort this out this league I might try it next one :D.

Glad you're having fun and things are working!