This is a death spiral. Here's how to stop it.

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Echothesis wrote:

It was voluntary and unnecessary decision to remove AH in D3 and instead trivialize basic combat loot to such degree, that every player is guaranteed to get BiS equipment after several hours since character creation. Let's hope PoE isn't going to do same to basic loot here:)

Did you play D3 when it had the AH? To play you really had to 'get BiS equipment after several hours since character creation'... except you had to get it through the AH.

There was no 'joy in finding' because you had to get basically everything from the AH and would only maybe once or twice find something endgame useful if you were lucky.

D3 and PoE are not directly comparable as the PoE itemisation model is much more complex. PoE has to have some kind of trading, but can't support an AH... There is WAY too much loot generated for that.

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Cyzax wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

It was voluntary and unnecessary decision to remove AH in D3 and instead trivialize basic combat loot to such degree, that every player is guaranteed to get BiS equipment after several hours since character creation. Let's hope PoE isn't going to do same to basic loot here:)

Did you play D3 when it had the AH? To play you really had to 'get BiS equipment after several hours since character creation'... except you had to get it through the AH.

There was no 'joy in finding' because you had to get basically everything from the AH and would only maybe once or twice find something endgame useful if you were lucky.

D3 and PoE are not directly comparable as the PoE itemisation model is much more complex. PoE has to have some kind of trading, but can't support an AH... There is WAY too much loot generated for that.

Implementation ah will generate to many items? If ggg add ah there will be alot of more customers too. Give a market chance. It does'nt need noones control.

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Cyzax wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

It was voluntary and unnecessary decision to remove AH in D3 and instead trivialize basic combat loot to such degree, that every player is guaranteed to get BiS equipment after several hours since character creation. Let's hope PoE isn't going to do same to basic loot here:)

Did you play D3 when it had the AH? To play you really had to 'get BiS equipment after several hours since character creation'... except you had to get it through the AH.

There was no 'joy in finding' because you had to get basically everything from the AH and would only maybe once or twice find something endgame useful if you were lucky.

D3 and PoE are not directly comparable as the PoE itemisation model is much more complex. PoE has to have some kind of trading, but can't support an AH... There is WAY too much loot generated for that.

I am one of the developers of the private D3 server (operating present day), and we have the AH working there, so yes, I know the D3 gameplay both before and after Blizz removed the AH in their version.

We have kept both the AH and the strict itemization, how it was in older versions of retail, and it is working fine with the content, that is only available in post-AH era in retail now.

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Echothesis wrote:

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I gave praise and admonishment in equal measure where it was due. OP deserves praise and you, well, you and your ideas aren't worth any more time or effort than you got from me.

Uhuh. Not sure how this information can be used to further any kind of discussion about the game, but now I know, what ideas are really Right, and what are really Wrong, thank you very much.

Yes, you took a single widely discussed idea from a well thought out post that is trying to bring attention to the myriad of problems in this game and effectively hijacked this thread to preach about it. Yes, you are WRONG, your ideas are WRONG and your childish infatuation with applying basic economics to a complex system which has proven your statements WRONG time and time again is WRONG.

You get what you deserve. Your simpleton ideas merit neither aknowledgement nor any sort of extensive debate.

"

Cyzax wrote:

PoE has to have some kind of trading, but can't support an AH... There is WAY too much loot generated for that.

I'd be really interested to hear why you think that. All an AH is is automated trading to keep you from having to use 3P websites to accomplish the same end...

I admire you're passion and commitment to care enough to submit such a long article. I wish you that you get a lot of supporting responds to it.
Unfortunately I somehow doubt that there are a lot of players left that are enthusiast enough to even go through the forum to find some good discussions...
Is anyone still playing this hot fuming pile of Chris Wilson's wet dream of endless hardcore deaths come true?
As always boys: if you care about the game on principle but hate the way POE has been taken into a downward spiral the last 2 years -> don't play and especially don't waste your hard earned on money in the shop and maybe Tenscent might finally talk some reason into those stubborn Kiwi heads

Stronglly disagree. Diablo2 proofed eficiently we canot make itso theirs socialy marketizated with action house. Strugling chalenged campagne game eforts best plyers and thus rewtards beta. Promarket instead makes tft a weigthed experince slowing game intrestingly. Devs carefuly analytizized PoE promarket is much better concepually than easy cliqer games.

Only one thing to be added to that great comment:
How could an auction house make POE in its current state worse in the slightest way?

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vmt80 wrote:

Stronglly disagree. Diablo2 proofed eficiently we canot make itso theirs socialy marketizated with action house. Strugling chalenged campagne game eforts best plyers and thus rewtards beta. Promarket instead makes tft a weigthed experince slowing game intrestingly. Devs carefuly analytizized PoE promarket is much better concepually than easy cliqer games.

Diablo 2 was the world of duping galore. There was no economy, or the economy was so trash that players had to make SoJ a currency to trade with.

Diablo 2 camapign was not hard, the only hard part of it was the last difficulty mode.
Diablo 2 has no extensive endgame.

PoE is not D2 and never has been. It is at best inspired by it but evolved in its own genre that is close to traditionnal ARPG's but not a traditional ARPG.

We don't need a pro market, we don't need TFT, we just need a good well balanced game that is rewarding to the point where endgame players would be happy to farm for aspirational content.

PoE should be SSF centric with optional trade for those who want it.

That means that loot should be good enough to get you to T16 + 4 voistones without the need to trade for what you need.

That means that all loot has to be target farmable (implying less drop rates).

That means that one attempt on a boss should not require 1000+ maps to farm.

Yeah this league kinda feels like a troll league.

GGG - " Fine, we wont nerf any builds this league "

Players - " ?? "

GGG - Adds monster health, invincibility, immunity, stupid strong mob mods with massive AoE that wrecks everything. Mod combinations that make mobs immortal. Significantly reduce rewards. " We did not nerf any build, as promised. " .


EDIT : We finally get to choose how we want to play maps, what content etc. Fantastic changes to end-game...., but the gameplay feels SO shit right now. No one gets to enjoy the awesome changes.