This is a death spiral. Here's how to stop it.

"

Patness wrote:

Opening post.

Amazing post, well thought out and glad you spent the time vocalizing these ideas. I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment.

It is a shame watching the rest of the thread devolve into a fight between peasants that are irrationally afraid of the 'auction hause' because one game from a franchise they worship did it badly that one time.

"

Patness wrote:

"

They aren't trying to bring in new players; they're trying to maintain existing players. Essentially all "new" players are returning players, and 86% of the revenue comes from the top players, so that's who they cater to.

Considering the experience I've had with GGG support regarding my recent purchase... well, they do not cater to existing players either.

"

Ageless_Emperion wrote:

"

Patness wrote:

Opening post.

Amazing post, well thought out and glad you spent the time vocalizing these ideas. I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment.

It is a shame watching the rest of the thread devolve into a fight between peasants that are irrationally afraid of the 'auction hause' because one game from a franchise they worship did it badly that one time.

You admired OP's well thought out post, but your own is a vague carpet bombing personal attack?

If, by chance you meant me, I never spoke about any other games, this is PoE forum.

If, by chance you meant Diablo "franchise", and specifically, Diablo 3, that game has much simpler and limited currency and item farming model, especially compared to PoE, and AH could have continued to exist there and could be controlled without such effort as it would take in economy like PoE (sorry for grammar, english is not my native).

It was voluntary and unnecessary decision to remove AH in D3 and instead trivialize basic combat loot to such degree, that every player is guaranteed to get BiS equipment after several hours since character creation. Let's hope PoE isn't going to do same to basic loot here:)

"

vmt80 wrote:

I know I am a troll here but does someone here honestly f*cking think Wall Street is about 'rationality'? Given everything that has been going on for years? 'Basic economics'? Yeah, I did study it for awhile. Want me to give a scientific speech of 'market rationality'?

Or bots? About 'rationality'? Want to try define it for me?

And they accuse me of trolling, lol. Accully eficient marketization.

price moves by the law of supply and demand. today i bought sp500 despite the bad economic data for US and made profit.

in short: data must be interpreted by the result it produces, not the other way around.

btw i dont have any economic degree but i making my living by trading the stock/forex market.

pretty much everything sums up my thoughts and feelings.

"

Echothesis wrote:

"

Ageless_Emperion wrote:

"

Patness wrote:

Opening post.

Amazing post, well thought out and glad you spent the time vocalizing these ideas. I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment.

It is a shame watching the rest of the thread devolve into a fight between peasants that are irrationally afraid of the 'auction hause' because one game from a franchise they worship did it badly that one time.

You admired OP's well thought out post, but your own is a vague carpet bombing personal attack?

If, by chance you meant me, I never spoke about any other games, this is PoE forum.

If, by chance you meant Diablo "franchise", and specifically, Diablo 3, that game has much simpler and limited currency and item farming model, especially compared to PoE, and AH could have continued to exist there and could be controlled without such effort as it would take in economy like PoE (sorry for grammar, english is not my native).

It was voluntary and unnecessary decision to remove AH in D3 and instead trivialize basic combat loot to such degree, that every player is guaranteed to get BiS equipment after several hours since character creation. Let's hope PoE isn't going to do same to basic loot here:)

I gave praise and admonishment in equal measure where it was due. OP deserves praise and you, well, you and your ideas aren't worth any more time or effort than you got from me.

"

Echothesis wrote:

"

Patness wrote:

You suggesting that goods being tradeable through a gated community like The Forbidden Trove is better?

Example: Sentinel HC league, present day.
1) HC character 1 farms new juicy recombinators.
2) HC character 1 transfers recombinators to HC character 2 of level 1
3) HC character 2 suicides himself at the first mob he meets, and goes to Standard.
4) recombinators are sold in Standard for many ex, likely before GGG even considered if they want them in Standard or not.

You think adding Auction house (AH) into this would benefit trade? It would only serve to fully automate schemes like above. In pure theory, AH would be better than current trade website, but at this point too many parts of the economy are plain lawless and out of GGG control.

I can solve this in 30 seconds. No AH in HC. Done.

The other comment I would like to say is, who gives a fuck? If they want to do that, go ahead. Doesn't hurt anyone.

"

I gave praise and admonishment in equal measure where it was due. OP deserves praise and you, well, you and your ideas aren't worth any more time or effort than you got from me.

Uhuh. Not sure how this information can be used to further any kind of discussion about the game, but now I know, what ideas are really Right, and what are really Wrong, thank you very much.

"

Thornwalker69 wrote:

"

Echothesis wrote:

"

Patness wrote:

You suggesting that goods being tradeable through a gated community like The Forbidden Trove is better?

Example: Sentinel HC league, present day.
1) HC character 1 farms new juicy recombinators.
2) HC character 1 transfers recombinators to HC character 2 of level 1
3) HC character 2 suicides himself at the first mob he meets, and goes to Standard.
4) recombinators are sold in Standard for many ex, likely before GGG even considered if they want them in Standard or not.

You think adding Auction house (AH) into this would benefit trade? It would only serve to fully automate schemes like above. In pure theory, AH would be better than current trade website, but at this point too many parts of the economy are plain lawless and out of GGG control.

I can solve this in 30 seconds. No AH in HC. Done.

The other comment I would like to say is, who gives a fuck? If they want to do that, go ahead. Doesn't hurt anyone.

If they manage to implement it without allowing today's abusive practices in trade, AH is better, sure. When people ask for adding AH, they usually think only of design benefits (which are kinda obvious compared to what we have now), but not about implementation difficulties (which are numerous, no need to repeat them here).

And the biggest of these difficulties is exactly that any large network of bots operated by rich players could drive any kind of item up and down in price as they want, and making money from thin air with it, at the expense of all other players.

Very good post.

The only things that are ticking me are :

Auction house, trade and TFT...

I don't care about trade, i don't care about the game getting a hard mode !

Base standard (not the game mode) Path of Exile should be :

1/ Kill mobs -> loot stuff
2/ Equip stuff -> Kill harder mobs
3/ rince and repeast until you finished the game

To achieve that it needs :

1/ To give currency and decent loot
2/ Not gating farming grounds behind artificial difficulty barriers (T16 + 4 voidstones)
3/ Aspirational content only shouldbe gated behind needing min maxing and thus needs to be able to farm T16 with sextants (voidstones should not be gated behind difficult bosses)

The problems is that GGG's assumes that a player that finished the game will quit the game and will not spend money on it.

Obviously i can't speek for everyone but i spent more than 2000$ in the game. I stopped in 2019 when the game was taking a path i did not like. To this day, i did not spent a dime and my playtime was divided by 10 since 3.13.

Now if you ask me if i'll spend money again on PoE ?

Nope, not with the way the game is going.

What would make me spend money again ?

Backtracking the 3.13 player power while keeping what made 3.17 a great eperience.

If they persist making the game harder and keep nerfing player power without nerfing the ceiling power of the 1%, then this game can go to hell, i'll never play it again.