Hello? i want to check is that possible for me to get nothing from 24+ eater of worlds in row?

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kaijyuu2 wrote:

Which is why people feel obligated to play a "meta" build.

No, they feel obliged to play meta because they see streamer play it.
There is shitton of builds that are great and dont need 50 ex.

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Aynix wrote:

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kaijyuu2 wrote:

Which is why people feel obligated to play a "meta" build.

No, they feel obliged to play meta because they see streamer play it.
There is shitton of builds that are great and dont need 50 ex.

Meta is meta for a reason.

I bet there's shitton of melee builds. On graveyard.

Unless you go elemental with Omni. 🤔 Who would have thought...

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

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kaijyuu2 wrote:

Which is why people feel obligated to play a "meta" build.

No, they feel obliged to play meta because they see streamer play it.
There is shitton of builds that are great and dont need 50 ex.

Meta is meta for a reason.

I bet there's shitton of melee builds. On graveyard.

Unless you go elemental with Omni. 🤔 Who would have thought...

Yes, the reason is "streamres play it/advertise it". Thats the only reason.
Streamer can pick 1c item for his build and after few days that items is 20 times more expensive because everyone jumps on bandwagon of either buying it for themselves or buything them in hope to sell for more to people who gonna play the build.

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Aynix wrote:

Yes, the reason is "streamres play it/advertise it". Thats the only reason.
Streamer can pick 1c item for his build and after few days that items is 20 times more expensive because everyone jumps on bandwagon of either buying it for themselves or buything them in hope to sell for more to people who gonna play the build.

They certainly have influence on prices.

Reason why something is meta is not that but power of the build.
Meta build like Seismic/Exsanguinate trap will farm endgame bosses or farm t16 Delirious maps with half of your investment while you will not be able to.
It's that simple.

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

Yes, the reason is "streamres play it/advertise it". Thats the only reason.
Streamer can pick 1c item for his build and after few days that items is 20 times more expensive because everyone jumps on bandwagon of either buying it for themselves or buything them in hope to sell for more to people who gonna play the build.

They certainly have influence on prices.

Reason why something is meta is not that but power of the build.
Meta build like Seismic/Exsanguinate trap will farm endgame bosses or farm t16 Delirious maps with half of your investment while you will not be able to.
It's that simple.

I tried Seismic trapper and it honestly felt horrible for mapping. Its very good for bosses, but for mapping it felt avarage at best. Whats funnies is all those people who made the build "because meta" are not people who want to farm bosses and would have better time mapping even on some non-meta build.
Same thing with DD.

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Aynix wrote:

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kaijyuu2 wrote:

Which is why people feel obligated to play a "meta" build.

No, they feel obliged to play meta because they see streamer play it.
There is shitton of builds that are great and dont need 50 ex.

name 12-15 non meta builds that ez/pz kill new uber bosses and not need any 50ex and no 3-6buttons to click

We don't have access to the actual drop rate but based on a meta-analysis of several eater beaters, drop table percent is somewhere between 0.5% - 2.0% per 100 IIQ native to the invitation.

I have no idea how the "rarity of items dropped by unique monsters in areas" nodes in atlas tree affect these things. It is definitely possible to roll 100% quant or higher corrupted eater invs and hit a dry spell.

Remember that "any one unique from its special pool" is no longer guaranteed. It drops items according to IIQ/R and this means that you're 98% - 99% likely to get zippo - no bow, no crappy shoes, no melding, no flesh, no ashes, no exceptional ichor.

That may change at some point to be more like Sirus where at least you get a paper bag or a pair of gamblin' gloves. But as of earlier today, the BEST item I walked out with in 5 runs was a chromatic recipe item.

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TreeOfDead wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

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kaijyuu2 wrote:

Which is why people feel obligated to play a "meta" build.

No, they feel obliged to play meta because they see streamer play it.
There is shitton of builds that are great and dont need 50 ex.

name 12-15 non meta builds that ez/pz kill new uber bosses and not need any 50ex and no 3-6buttons to click

The new uber bosses are aspirational content, that only 0.1% of people will ever approach, so no, I do not accept you setting this to be the standard what needs to be defeated. Those are meant to be on the powerlevel of feared and even I, who literally gets mirrors every league, don´t feel "forced" to beat the feared (and therefore not the uber bosses) I eventually do it at some point but it has no relevance, so we really shouldn´t hold builds to a higher standard for the sake of the argument.
So let´s assume a build needs to be able to kill Maven, Elder, Shaper, Uber-Elder, Sirus (in order to get his own watchstones) and do a 10-maven encounter as well as the 4-way encounters up to forgotten.

Everything above that is not only aspirational but highly boss-focussed, and you honestly can´t get the one-fits-all-build for cheap, so that would´t be fair eigher. With that in mind, here is your build list:

- Bane/ED Occultist (subtractem) - clears the entire game on a 20ex budget
- Holy Relic Necro - see above, maybe go for 40ex to feel good but thats it
- Lightning Trap Sabo (dissentxTV) - played it twice - awesome overall build
- Hydrosphere Elementalist (TEMPURAUDON) - 45ex, all content, even release-at-once bosses (very underappreciated content creator
- Ignite Wave of Conviction Elementalist (TEMPURAUDON) - see above, roughly 35ex, clears all content, tanky - again from that dude, awesome build creator
- Boneshatter Berserker (cArn, imexile) - check races, it kills everything easily in SSF
- Dex Stacking Spectral Throw Deadeye I think it was? (Mathil) - Mathils favourite build from last league, roughly 30ex to do the content above, finished with like 60ex investment doing release at once feared.
- Lancing Steel champion (AphelionPoE) he played that one in SSF as well, reached level 100. 35ex to get a VERY GOOD setup, scalable infinitely
- COC Lancing Steel Champion (Mathil) roughly 40ex, one of his top builds last league
- Vortex/Cold Snap Occultist - Check out the build guide in occu forum, a very stable build that exists for a long time, but it´s too slow for our meta-studs
- glacial cascade miner (Telavian33) - Bossing on a budget, unfortunately no one wants to play mines - doesn´t mean its not strong.
- Dex Stacking Ballista Totem Hiero - another off-meta build that´s been around for a while now, costs roughly 25ex to crush the above mentioned content.
- Hiltless Viper Strike Pathfinder (20ex) - Can even do Feared on that budget.

I honestly could go on with more research, those are just the builds I had in my head as those were the ones I was personally interested in and eigher played or checked the PoB in-depth as possible builds.


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ThorsteinTheFallen wrote:

They certainly have influence on prices.

Reason why something is meta is not that but power of the build.
Meta build like Seismic/Exsanguinate trap will farm endgame bosses or farm t16 Delirious maps with half of your investment while you will not be able to.
It's that simple.

correct, and where is the problem in that? It´s always very conventient, that for the sake of the argument people deviate from the original problem. First it was "there are only meta-builds, nothing else can beat the game", then we went to "off-meta builds cost mirrors to get going", and now you come along with "off-meta builds might be possible, also on a budget, but cost more than meta-builds".

And honestly, when it comes to scaling those I even doubt it. Yes, the INITIAL LEAGUESTARTERS are characters that can run down the endgame on a tabula and like 50c. Congrats. Doesn´t mean they feel nice to play. And if you wanna push those, you are faced versus a whole bunch of players goin for the same items with a very high demand on the market, therefore tons of higher prices. There are Mirror-Tier Convoking minion wands for Dark Pact for 8-10ex, cause no one wants to buy them. Good luck buying a triple tier 1 wand for skele mages, thats a mageblood of investment right there.
I´ve sold utter shit-helmets for like 10ex for meta builds, just because the demand is so high, crafted crappy bows last league that went for 40% more what they are supposed to cost for EA Ballista Elementalists... Meta is expensive.
The simple fact is: Just because people don´t know any other builds or content creators and only watch the top 5 does not mean there aren´t some hidden jewels in the community that can produce awesome builds.


To finish off:

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ThorsteinTheFallen wrote:

The only relevant fact is that you need to grind a lot more to achieve same levels of power than pre 3.15 . I don't like that they demand more and more time from the player.

I am careful on this one, since it´s a tricky point: I would second the argue that u need a bit more to get builds rolling in general, BUT the new atlas makes this also a lot easier. Typical alch-and-go-mapping got buffed by a huge margin in the last 2 patches, so for me it´s quite clear that because of that there is more money floating in the market, leading to higher prices. Not really sure that in a vacuum u need more TIME to get a build rolling.

Meta builds are strong and effective but they aren't guaranteed to be the strongest or best. They are just the strongest/best known to a lot of players, a key difference. People lament that there is no room for creativity or that you HAVE to play a meta build. Yes, if you don't know proper building foundation mechanics, this is true. If you do and make a non-meta build that is strong, you reap the rewards because all your gear becomes dirt cheap for pretty much the same power level that costs the meta build a fortune.

I made my own build this league. Because so few people play these skills, I got some ridiculous deals (my double mod watcher's eye was 1 ex, if the build was meta it'd be 30ex). My entire build right now, I sank maybe 30ex into it total (I crafted some of my stuff too). My chest piece cost me 14c at league start and I'm still using the same one.

I'd been having a lot of fun farming Height of Hubris invites for Formed/Twisted/etc. with Maven releases all on it (just specced out to knock out some challenges). Here's the thing, I'm still on a 5L but I output a ton of damage. When I get around to a 6L, I'm going for the uber bosses but right now I'd rather knock out a bunch of grindy challenges first.