How do you like the direction POE took since the investment of Tencent?
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the problem with that is its a more thing.
you have a normal, the normal gets mundane. suddenly youre given a lot more and its hyper exciting because the normal level you have become used to has set you up to have a strong craving for certain things based on their scarcity. they are desirable because you dont have them, its really hard to get them, no one really needs bis gears but their extreme rarity has set up your brain to light up like a christmas tree if you were to get one of these items. then suddenly you are given more stuffs, you are giving a way to craft these insane items quite easily, years and years and years of the game conditioning your brain to want this sort of gear because its super rare is suddenly hijacked by the game giving you all this gear easily and its like christmas day every day for the whole league omg its amazing. but that cant last dont you see that? it was only so amazing because it wasnt normal, the loot we get now is so stupidly powerful and dropping like candy compared to 2013 that if you grabbed a 2013 player and threw them right into the game today the amount of loot and the amount of player power would blow their minds. they would be foaming at the mouth with how amazing it all is. but you lot dont care, youre all moaning about how unrewarding the game feels because to you its not a ton of loot and all the amazeballs, to you its mundane, normal, the game has conditioned you to just expect this as standard and hence you feel nothing for it, and worse you are less satisfied with what you do get because the game has invalidated so many of its reward structures/incentives through loot spam. you wanted harvest to become the normal but you do not understand your own psychology in play, or more likely you probably just dont want to acknowledge what deep down you should really know. you dont need those items, you never need them, youre gonna talk about new players and build diversity and player retention but the game is supposed to have a level of challenge, the game is supposed to have a learning curve, build choices are supposed to matter and not be trivial because you can print mirror tier gear to patch over your mistakes and the game has kept its players for 10 years because theres a carrot on the stick that they have never been able to consistently reach. if left in harvest would have become normal, it would not have continued to keep players playing for an entire 3 month league like it did. it would become normal, boring, just like the current stupid levels of power and loot have and people would return to playing for a few weeks then dipping out. but the fallout would be that the item systems integrity was now fked and the game is a disaster because its path of harvest where no content matters except harvest. i plyaed for that entire 3 months, first time since ambush league. and i played in standard league, didnt even play the shitty league i went right for standard and spent 3 months on a lightning warp HoT automomber speeding through yellow tier atoll maps in seconds looking for harvests. thats all i did, warp warp warp warp through yellow tier content autokilling it looking for 1 thing for an entire 3 months because the entire game was now just harvest. no point playing any other content, no point in playing red tier maps, the whole game is about finding items and now the entire item find is meaningless and all content is meaningless because its like crack, you dont need to have a fulfilling life that causes a regular supply of dopamine in your brain you just have this degenerate drug that floods your brain with dopamine every time you want it and nothing else in your life can ever compare to the amount of 'you win' it gives you so you just do that one thing on repeat and abandon everything else. people try and point out your entire life has gone to shit and you dont care because "oh but muh crack pipe its so good..." it was a stupid, degenerate mechanic that broke the game and the reason it kept us for a league was because it gave us the carrot we had been conditioned to want. but if left in the game it would have reconditioned us to just expect that as normal and would not have kept its magic that kept us playing. it would have destroyed the game and failed to remain addictive. accept it, it was terrible and would have destroyed the game, its undeniable. every time theres 5 less players than there were at this point last year everyones got out the metrics and omg game is dying, it must be dying and that means they need to add harvest back because im still addicted to that harvest item printer crack pipe and cant let it go, if they give me back my win button everything will be fine and the game wont be dying any more.... games not dying, the game is fine, the success is insane, every league forever some people love it some hate it. the game sin maintenance mode til poe2 comes out, they dont care if this league has 20k less concurrent players than some recent ones, its still doing way better than the game was 5 years ago which in itself is a complete miracle of player numbers. theyre making poe2 and they will never destroy their game again by giving us an item printer that invalidates the entire item looting, item crafting and content sides of the game. its never coming back because it was terrible for the game. the devs know this, theyre not in denial about what those player retention numbers for that 1 league mean, they are the ones thinking about this rationally. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :) Last edited by Snorkle_uk#0761 on Jan 25, 2023, 7:51:40 AM
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" Bro, that is all it is every league. You literally spend map after map looking for the league mechanic, because otherwise it is just Standard with less gear and resources. Harvest was amazing because it let people gear up multiple characters and you were not pigeon holed into 1 build per league. Maybe Harvest was not great for people who play 100s of hours every league and make money off crafting, but for casuals it was amazing. It put all that gear we never have a chance at, in reach and make it seem obtainable. It actually made people play more because they knew that they could incrementally make a piece of gear better. It gave people a sense of progression and made it so bricking your gear was a whole lot less likely. The reason Harvest was/is great is because it takes away the casino, and gives players agency around their crafting. It also gives linear progression to your character, instead of massive spikes of luck and bricks. At no point in any other league could you deterministically craft your gear and have that sense of progression unless you are a no lifer who plays this game like a job. Harvest was the best league this game ever had for casuals, and probably will have as long as CW is in charge. Good thing Last Epoch and Diablo 4 are coming out this year, both of those games are way more casual friendly. Last edited by Nulledout#3809 on Jan 25, 2023, 8:40:57 AM
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Pretty garbage all n' all. I'm not impressed.
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" but the standard base game is full of previous league mechanics that you chased and were excited about in those leagues. so why are they not exciting to play? why are you looking for the new mechanic? because when something is in the game long term it doesnt feel special, it feels mundane, boring. now imagine having a mundane, boring system that invalidates all other game content, invalidates anything new they add and removes all the conditioning that has made you care about items in this item hunt game. you can already gear multiple characters and beat content with them. its just your brain has been conditioned to want better gear and to beat higher content because that is the nature of the game and our brains. you think you want a set thing, but you dont, you want what is outside your reach BECAUSE it is outside your reach. everything casuals wanted in 2013 you now have x100, and you are not happy, you know why? because you have it. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" I think you're not getting my point, especially as you keep talking numbers, metrics and steam charts. They aren't trying to make PoE "the most popular game". You first need to warm up to the idea (fact?) that they aren't trying to reach as many players as they can. EVERY SINGLE evidence is pointing towards this. The 3.15 nerfs, the removal of vanilla Harvest, more and more dependence on hard-to-obtain gear, less pure drop rates of both currency and divination cards. They are CLEARLY not trying to "appeal to everyone" or even "appeal to as large an audience as they can". Is that OK for a developer to do? Of course it is, many developers do this, and many "creators" within the art/entertainment industry are doing it. As I see it, they are trying to funnel their development towards the players they are most likely to keep when the competition around them is starting to heat up soon. We ALL know D4 will swoop up most of the casual crowd. But the crowd that wants - or even needs the grind? People that wants - or even needs to be able to sink in close to 100 hours a week? The crowd that wants - or even needs a game that requires you to sink your soul into? And the "right" player, is probably a player that finds himself in one or more of these crowds. And for this player, the reason behind the removal of Harvest, the 3.15 nerfs or whatever, is probably more "on point" than for you and me. Nah, in my eyes it's pretty clear: They are specializing their game towards a niche part of the ARPG market. If not, they are pretty [Removed by me]. Can I be wrong here? Of course I can. Do I agree with this direction? Not really (and I think it's a dangerous road to take). But if I'm right, it's more or less irrelevant for you to bring up steam charts, metrics and numbers - because they only point towards the overall popularity of the game, and I seriously think that the overall popularity of the game is WAY more important for you than it is for GGG. TL;DR Why bring up metrics, steam charts and numbers when it's (at least for me) blatantly obvious that they aren't trying to be 'the most popular game'? Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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" Mapping is the core of this game, and I still enjoy doing it. Heist, I still enjoy doing it. Breaches, I still enjoy doing it. Ritual, I still enjoy doing it. Beastiary, I still enjoy doing it. The new improved Chests, I absolutely love those. We have had some of the stuff listed for a LONG time, and the main core feature of the game that has been there forever is still fun to do. It sounds like you need the carrot more than I do. I play casually, so all of that is fun to me. You play a lot, like more than most, so you are still searching for that carrot after every league, but most of us are still nibbling on all the previous carrots. " The problem is that PoE has an identity crisis. GGG tried so hard early on to be the hard core ARPG, and it worked for their niche following that kept them alive through D3 being popular. Once D3 failed, they got an influx of players from D3, and started having to cater to them to keep their popularity, much to CW chagrin. Now they are in an internal war of what to do to keep popular. Their current course is headed back to a niche game. I guarantee you as soon as those number plummet, they will change to try to bring back the casual crowd. There is no way Tencent will let their 100m dollar baby fall because some hardcore sunlight avoider might get pissed. The problem with that, is it might be too late to bring back the casual crowd. Casual players make up most of this games player base. With Last Epoch Multiplayer and Diablo 4 coming out, this game needs to do some soul searching very quickly if it wants to retain its casual crowd. Last edited by Nulledout#3809 on Jan 25, 2023, 10:58:46 AM
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" If that's true Phrazz, then why do GGG and CW seemingly panic or react impulsively based on league performance or perception from a wider audience? It cant be both. They either wish to appeal to a specific niche gamer or they dont. They cannot panic and make knee jerk changes, while simultaneous "not caring" about the appeal to a larger segment of players. So I disagree with the "facts" you present here as GGG certainly doesnt respond in real time the way you have interpreted. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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" you literally just said this... " so good to know within the space of about 2 hours you are now saying the exact opposite of what you previously said. youve got 10 challenges, ive got none, whos in the league chasing the new thing and whos sitting in standard just enjoying the base game? I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" Where exactly did I contradict myself? Please provide quotes. " I play casually. 10 Challenges is casual, very casual a a gamer goes. The crazy part is 80% of the player base is even more casual than me. Their average player makes it to Act 6 or something? Last edited by Nulledout#3809 on Jan 25, 2023, 11:09:01 AM
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" Do you have an example here, that does not include the "player" I was referring to? AN comes to mind, but that was more or less disliked by all "crowds". You have to agree that they CAN make PoE more casual friendly, more crafting friendly, more drop friendly, easier/faster/more smooth progression, less convoluted + 1000 more things that WOULD make the next league(s) WAY more popular. You know it, I know it and they know it. They KNOW the numbers from Harvest, or Ritual or whatever. They CHOOSE not to build on the factors that made those leagues popular. Why? Because they're [Removed by me]? Or may there be other reasons? Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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