NERF AR/EV + Spell Suppression

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Vepa wrote:

Everything u listed there is either weaker or is not even comparable cause it is something u can and often times will get alongside AR/EV + Determination + Spell Supression.

Flasks, Leech, Movement Speed, Phasing, Life Regen, Fortify, Max Res, Minions, Block... these are all things u can have alongside anyway. Doesnt even matter what Bases u use for Armour.

Steelskin. Yes u can use it but it is a lot weaker than molten shell with high armour.

Eva/Spelldodge. Weaker or need more Investment cause you need to get Phys Mitigation elsewhere.

Eva/ES. Same as Eva/Spelldodge. Also for Ghostshrouds you can just craft Max Life as ES on Chest and get the full value out of them with Armour/Evasion. No need for Eva/ES bases to do that.


There is just no Reason to go with other Bases unless u plan to do something special with high investment for your defense like Transcendence Builds for Example.


I dont say it is a bad thing that there is easy to get and good defense, but i think it should be brought in line with the other Options by either nerf AR/EV or even better imo buff the other bases.

i disagree with armor/eva bases beeing best

if you set it up right and get a phy mitgation (taken as,end charges or raw reduced dmg taken) pure eva is better as ranged charr

if your build or class allowes it,i would put eva/es with ghost dance above that (especially as shadow)

i´m pretty sure armor/es or rather es+determination(taking hybrid notes on passive tree) + block + on block stuff is even stronger


ar/eva is a solid defence and maybe the most consistent one but its defenitly not the one were you take the lowest amount of dmg

It is the best if u consider Investment and accessability.

Just watch HC SSF Ladder. Count the amount of high Level Chars without Armour/Evasion. Will give u a clear picture if u cant figure out why its better thinking about game mechanics.

Ghost Dance? As already explained u get the same amount of ES Recovery with just one Chestcraft with Ar/Ev bases.

Block? Why u got Block with Ar/Es but no Block with Ar/Eva?

buff (fix) fortify for true melee chars is a better topic imho

My main problem with current state of defense

1. you can pick all of them without any trade off other than some opportunity cost -> picking skill that requires less dmg investment is the tradeoff


2. missing tools to easily focus on one specific defense type
- for example formal Acrobatics negated Armor, Block and ES , but provided strong bonus for evasion as direct complementary mechanic to Dodge
Evasion basically has now Wind Dancer which is completely useless, Arrow Dancing which is semi-useless. Divine Shield, Ghost Dance does not have any trade off. MoM is indirectly nerfed due to the strength of Determination + Grace + Defiance combo. It is borderline non viable archetype.


Right now the charater building in PoE is basically forced 1 true defensive aura, banner and if dmg is OK you will fit in the second defensive aura. And Meta builds just fit everything in it or use substitute in form of Mageblood or Headhunter

having godmode defenses is good

getting them cheap/easy is not

give more power to crafting and gear, less power to skill tree.

nerf EVERY league starter there is so that people cannot kill maven/uber elder without 50ex gear at least.

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Marxone wrote:

Right now the charater building in PoE is basically forced 1 true defensive aura, banner and if dmg is OK you will fit in the second defensive aura. And Meta builds just fit everything in it or use substitute in form of Mageblood or Headhunter

this feels like a fine summary of how we play on HC atm at least, i've not made a character without determination or grace since they reworked them and every PoB i make will have it baked in. If my characters a baller i might throw a second in and the banner is usually about fixing mana problems then can run that too.

I'm actually the opposite of Lima on this, I think the passive tree values are about right and the gear's too high especially for mechanics like spell suppression. That power dynamic needs fixing by more passives being available for defence and more defence requirements not being auto skipped by 100m dps.

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Vepa wrote:

It is the best if u consider Investment and accessability.

Just watch HC SSF Ladder. Count the amount of high Level Chars without Armour/Evasion. Will give u a clear picture if u cant figure out why its better thinking about game mechanics.

Ghost Dance? As already explained u get the same amount of ES Recovery with just one Chestcraft with Ar/Ev bases.

Block? Why u got Block with Ar/Es but no Block with Ar/Eva?

like i said before

depending on class,starting point and build some of the options are better

why no block with ar/eva or eva/es ? maybe bcause the build isnt using a shield? or you dont want to path to all the block notes

another reason could be the socket colors,try getting 4-5 blue sockets on ar/eva

ar/eva is probably the most accessible/cheapest option for a solid defence,but it simply isnt the best (imo atleast)

it might be the best option in hc because of that
i´m not playing hardcore so i dont really know

I think u dont understand what i wanted to say in my last post. English is not my native language.

I try to explain. You mentioned that Ar/ES with Block/on Block effect might be stronger.
If u want to compare the defense that u get with AR/EV against AR/ES you have to either give both builds Block or non of them. Because that doesnt matter for the comparison. You can get it with both and it is independent of the Bases you use.

I mean HC Builds are focused on staying alive. Which is the purpose of defense. Thats true for HC and SC.
If something is better at staying alive then i would consider it the better defense.

The overwhelming majority of people on ssfhc uses the mentioned combo. AR/Ev + Spell supp+ Determination + molten Shell. Often times Grace + Defiance Banner + Ghost Dance added.

There are many Reasons for it. It comes Online fast. It is pretty easy to get. But the biggest Reason is that it is the most reliable and overall strongest defense u can have right now besides some really high Investment stuff.

ya i didnt make one thing clear when i used ar/es,i didint include spell suppression on this
the reason for this is the stat not beeing on gear and you probably wouldnt be in the passive tree area for it
so i though it would be fair ar/es + block vs ar/eva + suppression

for the hcssf part

i meant that ar/eva is probably the best option based on limited access to gear because of ssf while still giving such good results that surviving very dangerous things is extremyly likely as long as you dont have major screw ups

its "good enough" (not trying to devaule it here,i simply dont have better words for it) to do everything with very low risk as long as you know what you are doing

it simply doesnt peak as high as other option especially when you dont use a shield

at the point where i really started investing into my gear(i craft them myself but use trade for more currency and currency exchange) the numbers in PoB seemed better

i must admit though this result is kinda biased

i compared the numbers before crafting and i have a lot more experience running
eva,eva+es and armor+es /in combination with 1 or more of block,dodge/now etreamly high eva,spell suppression

while i sometimes use ar/eva as a stepping stone my endgame builds dont look like that
i simply know these defences work for me and it is rather easy for me to beat all content as long as i have good gear

to make it short

i know these other defences work very well in endgame,they make all content very easy if used right
my opinion that they are "better" if heavily invested is biased though,because i prefer them based on playstyle and builds (these classes i use etc)
but i must admit that my expierence with high investment in ar/eva is very limited

Determination or mana reservation

Something needs to be nerfed they are way to powerful now.