Map drop indirectly nerfed since 10.2 patch - looking for data

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Boem wrote:

I hope that with this explanation u can consider ureself "endgame" once u reached lvl 75 ore higher. And not be disapointed in how the game mechanics works, because they work as intented. Rerolling a char, and expanding ure creativity in doing so, seems to me the best viable way to enjoy the game even more once u have beaten its "current" state.

However i do wish u the best of luck with ure endevor to seek out statistical prove of map drops, it wont be easy, but given enuf people join ure effort it can surely be realised.

You can explain everything if you try to. But that´s not the point. By limiting endgame artificially GGG frustrates players, so they quit. There are studies, saying that less than 3% of the players who already quit a game will ever return to the same game. So for every player quitting, GGG needs to find a new player.

Sure, this is only beta...., great excuse for releasing an unfinished game btw, but lost players are lost players, they do not care about excuses.

GGG only consists of 20 brave men, investing their own money...., another great story, and let me tell you something, nobody cares. They wanted to compete with the big boys, so they have to deliver a game that is competitive. PoE may have the potential to become this game, but actually it isn´t.

In it´s actual state, the game is fun for 30-50 hours and that´s it. Replaying the same boring content, you already replayed 3 times, as the different difficulty stages are NOT different at all, is simply no solution you can seriously offer.

And just to talk about endurance. If there were maps to run, maybe the game would last only 1-2 months after getting to 75, but this would be 1-2 months more than it lasts now.

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Nyruami wrote:

By limiting endgame artificially GGG frustrates players, so they quit.

[...]

And just to talk about endurance. If there were maps to run, maybe the game would last only 1-2 months after getting to 75, but this would be 1-2 months more than it lasts now.

More or less what my response would be, without a sense of progression frustration sets in and players feel forced to quit.
I'll tell you how I feel right now: no matter how i approach the problem, what strategy i pursue, how much currency i invest in maps, i am downgrading my map levels constantly. It's a sense of being unempowered.

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ExiledToWraeclast wrote:

RNG is RNG.

it's a bit easier to get maps since the patch but it is not really noticeable to the average player.

Then the RNG is flawed. I mean come on, if you go to school for CS you're going to have a professor ranting about bad RNG at some point or another.

Time for an update.

I've recorded 263 maps so far and things don't look too bright. Here's a summary:

Total maps gained out of 263 maps done: 71 (this number indicates the extra maps that i have earned, taking into consideration the consumed ones, so the total number of map drops would be 334)
This means that, on average, i got 1.27 maps per map.
And here is where things take a turn for the worse, the maps gained by level:
66- 45
67- 23
68- 4
69- 0
70- -2
71- 1
72- 0
73- 0
74- 0
75- 0

I won't jump to any conclusions for now, but i'm curious if the distribution will chance once i reach 500 (if i ever will).

In before GGG resposnse to this thread:

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Our extensive internal testing made on two computers in a basement by our janitor (we run 5 maps in a row!) shows that maps drop rate especially highlvl ones is good. We think players are not chiseling enough. We also think about adding more RNG and cutting drop rates by half because we are hardcore hardcores and the heavy armor in real life was not invented to protect from heavy and fatal attacks (our janitor teels that so it must be true). It was invented to shows how preety human legs are (bacause fuck pants)

Sincerely

Jay (or Chris... whatever.. they seems like the same person atm) Wilson


Overall L2P and be real man.

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And here is where things take a turn for the worse, the maps gained by level:
66- 45
67- 23
68- 4
69- 0
70- -2
71- 1
72- 0
73- 0
74- 0
75- 0

That's just terrible. "Something ain't right," as they say.

I like what they are trying to do with the end game, but I'm not really happy where it's standing right now. Not sure what to say.

--C

The problem with people claiming they drop more/ less maps after a patch is that , especially after a patch, there isn't yet enough datas to statistically find a trend.

The problem gets even worse when you are looking at stuff that doesn't drop too often. The less the drop chances are, the bigger the sample must be.

EG: for wisdom scroll to drop, maybe killing 1000 monster would be enough to give a statistically accurate trend. But for a kaom's heart it will certainly be something around 1 000 000+.


It is the same for low-level/ high level maps. As high level maps doesn't drop so often, you probably need 10 000+ map run to give a statistically accurate drop rate for those (within 95% or 99% correctness).

So to your question: we can't tell. Maybe drop rates are manipulated, maybe we are all foul to belive it is, maybe the drop rate has been increased, maybe decreased. As long as nobody comes with 10 000+ map run pre 10.2 and 10 000+ maps run post 10.2, we can't (speaking of statitically correct result) give n answer to your question.

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numenorean wrote:

Time for an update.

I've recorded 263 maps so far and things don't look too bright. Here's a summary:

Total maps gained out of 263 maps done: 71 (this number indicates the extra maps that i have earned, taking into consideration the consumed ones, so the total number of map drops would be 334)
This means that, on average, i got 1.27 maps per map.
And here is where things take a turn for the worse, the maps gained by level:
66- 45
67- 23
68- 4
69- 0
70- -2
71- 1
72- 0
73- 0
74- 0
75- 0

I won't jump to any conclusions for now, but i'm curious if the distribution will chance once i reach 500 (if i ever will).

This doesn't mean anything without the levels of the maps you played. If all 263 maps you ran were level 66, I'd say things are looking pretty good.

I know Maps and uniques aren't the same thing, but follow me on this.

It seems that GGG wants to polarize anything that drops. For example, the unique drop rate was raised, but the "crappy" uniques were made to drop more and the "valuable" uniques were made to drop less. If you don't believe me, read the patch notes.

Now, what if they did the same with maps? Where the "valuable" ones are the 70+ ones and the "crappy" ones are the 60 range maps.

I'm not trying to go on some conspiracy theory. I'm trying to use what they've done to figure out what else they may have done.

RNG is indeed RNG, but there are people who control the odds of that RNG being favorable or not. In other words, RNG isn't really RNG, but as long as we don't know how it's not, it's RNG.

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This doesn't mean anything without the levels of the maps you played. If all 263 maps you ran were level 66, I'd say things are looking pretty good.

Well there's a point. My assumption is that he started with a smaller pool of 66's, and ran the set of maps that the pool itself generated. It's terrible RNG if that's what happened, though. If it did, all I can say is that "I don't think RNG should gate someone's ability to actually play the game in this particular way."

Map system needs work. Not sure what that is.

--C