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Having to use GMP (and rely on gem swapping) is indeed a punch to the face. The Unleash nerf is also a punch to the face as a lot of Freezing Pulse builds were using it.
That said, with the damage boost and boost to damage efficiency, I think we're talking about a buff overall, especially when we see a lot of new flat damage to spells on the new implicit currency. When we then add in more flat damage to spells and certain weapons and buffed cast speed overall, we're definitely talking about an overall buff.
But the buff is absolutely not as big as other spells.
I've made several Freezing Pulse builds before, as Assassin, Trickster, Elementalist and Inquisitor, and I always ended up using Unleash. Now, I think we have to take a hard, long look at Pinpoint. Sadly, Pinpoint doesn't add enough projectile by itself, but if we should go that route, it would probably be sufficient with LMP instead of GMP.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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Posted byPhrazz#3529on Jan 28, 2022, 6:35:37 PM
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Phrazz wrote:
Having to use GMP (and rely on gem swapping) is indeed a punch to the face. The Unleash nerf is also a punch to the face as a lot of Freezing Pulse builds were using it.
That said, with the damage boost and boost to damage efficiency, I think we're talking about a buff overall, especially when we see a lot of new flat damage to spells on the new implicit currency. When we then add in more flat damage to spells and certain weapons and buffed cast speed overall, we're definitely talking about an overall buff.
But the buff is absolutely not as big as other spells.
I've made several Freezing Pulse builds before, as Assassin, Trickster, Elementalist and Inquisitor, and I always ended up using Unleash. Now, I think we have to take a hard, long look at Pinpoint. Sadly, Pinpoint doesn't add enough projectile by itself, but if we should go that route, it would probably be sufficient with LMP instead of GMP.
The unleash nerf was the biggest surprise for me in the entire balance side of this patch. Because aside from the fact that I genuinely enjoy playing unleash caster builds - the hit and run burst damage approach kind of meshes perfectly with INT based defenses like MoM and ES - unleash was added to the game in the first place specifically BECAUSE GGG felt that hand-casting needed some extra tools.
So in a patch where GGG wants more self-casters, two patches after they nerf two of self-casters' best tools (arcane surge and archmage), they nerf another one of self-casters' best tools. Cool, I guess.
Maybe if you want people to play something, stop nerfing it? Just sayin.
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They've definitely dropped the ball on this one. I guess none of the balance team tried playing FP without extra projectiles. Yes, you can swap a damage gem for GMP and have about the same damage as in 3.16, but that's not in line with other spells that got a *real* buff in 3.17.
Last edited by outerworld#7910 on Jan 28, 2022, 11:11:47 PM
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Posted byouterworld#7910on Jan 28, 2022, 11:11:14 PM
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Phrazz wrote:
The worst thing you can imagine is that game balancing put you in situation of rely on that thing, which should be not in the game at all.
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Posted byNabsta2201#1609on Jan 29, 2022, 5:22:45 AM
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Pinpoint Support might be better now right?
Forum pvp
https://www.instagram.com/critterspencils/ Last edited by lolozori#1147 on Jan 29, 2022, 6:07:40 AM
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Posted bylolozori#1147on Jan 29, 2022, 6:06:47 AM
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pinpoint was always so much better than unleash in terms of both map clear and boss dps... only problem is you need the 2 threshold jewels or you left shooting no projectiles.
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Posted byferal_nature#7076on Jan 29, 2022, 8:43:24 AM
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Revnaut wrote:
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IntellectSucks wrote:
The 70% damage boost may make up for the loss of a support gem, but not the loss of additional damage boost from the First Snow jewels, or the nerf to Added Cold Damage (this one is big since Freezing Pulse has a big increased effectiveness of added damage multi).
You should actually do calculations with real numbers first before making incorrect statements.
So you'll get 2 extra sockets since you won't be using First Snow. First snow gives 35% increased damage conditionally. You can get a cheap jewel that has more damage without conditions, and has % increased life. Here's one for 20c.
And for the added cold damage...
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152 to 228 at gem level 20 (previously 169 to 254)
So old damage is 211.5 and new damage is 190, so yes it got nerfed. But Freezing Pulse went from 200% to 330% effectiveness. So really it's
old = 211.5 * 2 = 423 added cold damage
new = 190 * 3.3 = 627 added cold damage
You actually now have 48% more added cold damage.
So when you say
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but not the loss of additional damage boost from the First Snow jewels, or the nerf to Added Cold Damage
you are incorrect on both counts because you are gaining more damage (and life) from getting better jewels, and added cold damage got buffed, not nerfed.
This is certainly closer to convincing me but with so many factors at play, I really want to see the numbers on POB. Also, it seemed to me that pretty much anyone who was running Freezing Pulse was running First Snow. If the jewels added so much damage and life, why wouldn't they have swapped out the First Snow jewels for ones similar to what you linked and used GMP prior to 3.17? Lack of knowledge?
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IntellectSucks wrote:
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Revnaut wrote:
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IntellectSucks wrote:
The 70% damage boost may make up for the loss of a support gem, but not the loss of additional damage boost from the First Snow jewels, or the nerf to Added Cold Damage (this one is big since Freezing Pulse has a big increased effectiveness of added damage multi).
You should actually do calculations with real numbers first before making incorrect statements.
So you'll get 2 extra sockets since you won't be using First Snow. First snow gives 35% increased damage conditionally. You can get a cheap jewel that has more damage without conditions, and has % increased life. Here's one for 20c.
And for the added cold damage...
"
152 to 228 at gem level 20 (previously 169 to 254)
So old damage is 211.5 and new damage is 190, so yes it got nerfed. But Freezing Pulse went from 200% to 330% effectiveness. So really it's
old = 211.5 * 2 = 423 added cold damage
new = 190 * 3.3 = 627 added cold damage
You actually now have 48% more added cold damage.
So when you say
"
but not the loss of additional damage boost from the First Snow jewels, or the nerf to Added Cold Damage
you are incorrect on both counts because you are gaining more damage (and life) from getting better jewels, and added cold damage got buffed, not nerfed.
This is certainly closer to convincing me but with so many factors at play, I really want to see the numbers on POB. Also, it seemed to me that pretty much anyone who was running Freezing Pulse was running First Snow. If the jewels added so much damage and life, why wouldn't they have swapped out the First Snow jewels for ones similar to what you linked and used GMP prior to 3.17? Lack of knowledge?
while the full results really have to be playtested (especially when ppl use spell echo over unleash)
was first snow jewel really good?
with that i dont mean what first snow offered,but the idea of having to always run 2 uniq jewels (okay first snow was awesome in a way,because you can easily get a corrupted blood mod on a very commonen uniq jewel)
imo its a step in the right direction even though the buff and unleash changes could mean FP will have a bad time this league
it opens up better gearing but kinda hurts a low budget version of the build
imo this is good,but not the best outcome
adding 1 proj every 10 gem levels could have been an intresting option as well
(even when playing with an even number of projectils can really feel awkward)
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Posted byciel289#7228on Feb 1, 2022, 2:41:58 PM
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It will be fine in Standard :D
Better! Much Better!
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Posted byDeliverme#3978on Feb 1, 2022, 3:19:24 PM
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ciel289 wrote:
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IntellectSucks wrote:
while the full results really have to be playtested (especially when ppl use spell echo over unleash)
was first snow jewel really good?
with that i dont mean what first snow offered,but the idea of having to always run 2 uniq jewels (okay first snow was awesome in a way,because you can easily get a corrupted blood mod on a very commonen uniq jewel)
imo its a step in the right direction even though the buff and unleash changes could mean FP will have a bad time this league
it opens up better gearing but kinda hurts a low budget version of the build
imo this is good,but not the best outcome
adding 1 proj every 10 gem levels could have been an intresting option as well
(even when playing with an even number of projectils can really feel awkward)
Yeah, it never even occurred to me before the change that First Snow could be removed. I guess the thought of losing a big damage support gem seemed too daunting for a build that already struggled with DPS. Now that GGG is removing it altogether it's forcing us to consider other ways to build.
I guess we'll see in a day or two how this shakes out. I'm planning on league starting with it so I'll probably put out a post about it.
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