Is eliminating First Snow a death blow for self cast Freezing Pulse?

So in Scourge I built a self cast Freezing Pulse build for the first time and it was awesome. Easily the best build I've ever made and loads of fun. I was planning on making it my regular league starter but after reading the new changes, I'm not sure how well it will perform in the new league.

Eliminating the First Snow jewel will nerf freezing pulse in the following ways:

1. A loss of four projectiles, which means you now need to rely on Greater Multiple Projectiles (GMP) or Pinpoint for clearing (or both). Either one will take up a gem slot that would be better served with a different support such as Hypothermia, bonechill, inspiration, spell echo, etc, etc.

2. During pretty much all content except bossing a loss of 64-70% increased cold damage, as Freezing Pulse has a high chance to freeze so you're shattering enemies all the time, triggering the 25% increased if you've recently shattered an enemy on each jewel.

3. A big loss of DPS due to swapping out one or two damage supports for GMP/pinpoint. My current build (which is not by any means min-maxed) goes from 1.8 Million mapping DPS to a little over 1 million (!!!) when you swap in GMP instead of bonechill. (POB if you want to verify: https://pastebin.com/5GsmUVgD) I understand that Freezing Pulse will get a hefty DPS boost on the skill itself as well as an increase effectiveness of added damage boost but I'm skeptical that those will make up for the huge loss from the support gem loss.

3a. I keep referring to GMP instead of pinpoint because the Pinpoint mechanic seems so incredibly clunkly. First off, you only have the extra projectiles when you DON'T have intensity, so you're sacrificing clear speed for single target DPS or vice versa. Additionally, you lose intensity while moving or teleporting (I'm assuming this applies to blink skills or dash skills but I'd be happy to be corrected). Given that standing still for too long means death in POE, it seems to me that any DPS boosts that pinpoint seems to add really only exist on paper, since by moving and dashing around to dodge the enemy spells/attacks you're getting rid of those bossts.

I'm eagerly awaiting the Patch notes and POB update so I can make real comparisons instead of just speculating but it seems like self cast Freezing Pulse stayed the same at best and got a nerf at worst. If GGG wanted to buff self cast in general in comparison to totems/mines, and also buff Freezing Pulse, why not make First Snow apply only to self cast? Or why not add more projectiles to Freezing pulse when it is self cast?

Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems that GGG didn't fully think through their attempt to buff self cast freezing pulse.

Freezing Pulse is indeed dead. Don't be fooled. They do this kind of stuff intentionally. Knowingly. They buff the spell only to nerf it by forcing you to include a functional gem like LMP/GMP.

You'll notice that the jewels that include projectiles are being phased out.

Formally Magma Orb
Freezing Pulse
Ethereal Knives
Frost Bolt...etc

As an OG player, I can't express the level of hatred I have for what POE is becoming.

The patch notes is already out.

"

1458 to 2188 at gem level 20 (previously 888 to 1332)

That is 64% more base damage. So if you went from 1.8m to 1m dps with gmp, then it will probably look more like 1.64m dps. Slight nerf.

On the plus side, you could gem swap gmp on bosses to get a straight 64% more damage for nearly 3 million dps.

I mean we have the numbers so you don't have to wonder. Freezing pulse is getting a 70% damage boost to compensate players for having to run GMP... When you factor in that players have 2 extra sockets worth of crit multi, the damage is going to be 10-15% better than it is currently, even down a support gem.

The real question is, WAS selfcast freezing pulse good enough before? Because I would honestly say that it wasn't. So we're only talking about 15% better than "not worth playing" here.

That being said, it might be a great secondary/clearing skill now for builds which have some other spell (ice spear, etc) for single target. Sort of what split arrow is for archers.

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

I mean we have the numbers so you don't have to wonder. Freezing pulse is getting a 70% damage boost to compensate players for having to run GMP... When you factor in that players have 2 extra sockets worth of crit multi, the damage is going to be 10-15% better than it is currently, even down a support gem.

The real question is, WAS selfcast freezing pulse good enough before? Because I would honestly say that it wasn't. So we're only talking about 15% better than "not worth playing" here.

That being said, it might be a great secondary/clearing skill now for builds which have some other spell (ice spear, etc) for single target. Sort of what split arrow is for archers.

My Freezing Pulse build was definitely NOT a meta build and struggled with true endgame content (Sirus, Maven, some T16 maps, etc) but was certainly viable to easily run juiced maps up to T14/15. I strongly suspect that in the hands of someone who was much better at buildcraft than I am it could be pushed over the line that would allow it do be able to comfortably do all content. And besides all that, it was fun as hell to play. So if it TRULY is made 15% better it means that there's a fun, non-meta build that should be able to get through almost all content even it's not as effective as other more powerful builds.

The 70% damage boost may make up for the loss of a support gem, but not the loss of additional damage boost from the First Snow jewels, or the nerf to Added Cold Damage (this one is big since Freezing Pulse has a big increased effectiveness of added damage multi). Besides the stated intention was to BUFF self cast and Freezing Pulse to bring the build more in line with other builds that are far more effective. Removing mechanics that actually make the build work doesn't buff the build, it just keeps it at parity.

Perhaps you're right and it will be a small buff, but I don't think I'll be convinced until I see some POB numbers.

i was melting ultimatums with elementalist realm ender and two threshold jewels.

i dont think its currently viable for league - you can still do pretty solid char in std with old jewels though.(ascendancy lost ailment immunity so i kinda lost interest)

Freezing Pulse was a fully viable skill. People built it for pure-damage and that was a mistake. Key to it was to:
- stack projectile speed so ranged gameplay didnt mean low dps
- stick to cold damage and (ab)use it: chill effect, freezes (blast-freeze is MANDATORY)
- layer stuff like Winterbrand+BoneChill with a Totem or two.

end result is a very good clear and moderately fast but easy and safe bossing. Sirus with max chill and temp chains is harmless.

From my experience, GGG overbuffed selfcast that in most cases did not need any intervention. nerfing mines/traps/totems and brands (aka any proxy playstyle) would have been enough. but oh well, free goodies for everyone 2 leagues after 'we nerf' league and serious playerbase exodus

Full cold Tornado might be the big winner here, you're now shooting it point blank with 64% more damage. They overcompensated you for extra projectiles you didn't even need.

Had a good bit of fun in deli everywhere with phys EK+Tornado, I expect this would be much better.

"

IntellectSucks wrote:

The 70% damage boost may make up for the loss of a support gem, but not the loss of additional damage boost from the First Snow jewels, or the nerf to Added Cold Damage (this one is big since Freezing Pulse has a big increased effectiveness of added damage multi).

You should actually do calculations with real numbers first before making incorrect statements.

So you'll get 2 extra sockets since you won't be using First Snow. First snow gives 35% increased damage conditionally. You can get a cheap jewel that has more damage without conditions, and has % increased life. Here's one for 20c.



And for the added cold damage...

"

152 to 228 at gem level 20 (previously 169 to 254)

So old damage is 211.5 and new damage is 190, so yes it got nerfed. But Freezing Pulse went from 200% to 330% effectiveness. So really it's

old = 211.5 * 2 = 423 added cold damage
new = 190 * 3.3 = 627 added cold damage

You actually now have 48% more added cold damage.

So when you say

"

but not the loss of additional damage boost from the First Snow jewels, or the nerf to Added Cold Damage

you are incorrect on both counts because you are gaining more damage (and life) from getting better jewels, and added cold damage got buffed, not nerfed.

freeze pulse doesnt deal area damage, but i think the theory still holds up that you can get more damage from a rare jewel since crit multi and cast speed would both give more dps than the 10% area damage stat.

the important thing is its always there too for bosses etc and as is pointed out, either life or es on the jewel.

i hate threshold jewels, i wish they were never added tbh and it annoys me when a skill basically requires them because youre losing 7% life for each one equipped right away.