PLEASE make Endless Delve a Core leveling option

I agree 100% the campaign is just horrid. They keep wanting to make it harder and to take longer to get to endgame, but this is the whole issue. Endgame is where all the fun is and i personally am tired of pushing through 8-12hrs of the same bs content every reset. Give me endless heist, endless delve, or some other option to grind for variety. I still feel this is a huge reason so many give up on this game cause of the campaign being stagnant

ive levelled 2 chars to 85 and im on a 3rd who is 76 in endless delve so far. thats how much im enjoying levelling in delve. in the campaign? i fking hate levelling, i hate it so much now days.

i havent enjoyed levelling this much since the first time i played acts 5-10.




look, i know all the reasons they always give for never adding something like this to level second and third chars in leagues, i understand them. they think if they make a better campaign then we will be more happy playing it.



no matter how good your campaign is, its a mode based around a story. it will be fun, and then less fun, and then really annoying. its tied to a concept that is not optimised for repetition, a linear story.

ive used the music analogy before. write a really good song, people love it, they might even listen to it on repeat for hours for a few days. but u get sick of hearing it, if i never hear smells like teen spirit again ill be a happy man, i fking hate it. first time i heard it blew me away, i loved it. its a great song, and one that has sounded like nails down a chalk board since about 1997.


now strip away almost everything that makes a song like that 'interesting'. take out the vocals, take out the guitars, strip it down to the most 'boring' aspects, just the drums and the bass. what youre gonna end up with is something a lot closer to club music like techno, drum n bass etc. people listen to that stuff for 10 hours of straight up beats and bass, sometimes with virtually no melodic content at all. if youre into that kind of music its actually really hard to get 'bored' of it, because youve stripped out all the hooks that you get bored of. im not bored of the drums in teen spirit, i hate the melodic hooks.




what makes endless delve great is that its so close to vanilla, its super low flavour, stripped back, more 'boring' than a campaign. hey, guess what, theres an element of that where a lot of people are gonna get less bored because it doesnt have a flavour, its just gameplay.




same people saying they hate levelling, they hate playing an 8 hour campaign, but theyre fine with playing 100s of hours of maps after the campaign which have no story, more repetitive, more 'boring', so why are they not more bored with maps?

well ya, in a way they are less interesting, but that changes the mindset of how people interact with the content. people dont listen to tribal techno the same way they listen to elton john.

theres gonna be a significant group of people who will always grow to hate a campaign really quickly and will be a lot less bored if you give them a stripped down more 'boring' levelling method. and actually its gonna work 2 fold, in that if they only have to level through the campaign once in a league then it will be longer before they get bored of that campaign rather than playing it 3 times a league, and those people who hate campaigns so much they only level once in a league now might stick around 3x as long because they can level the other 2 in content that is not designed around a linear story.





part of this is a dev ego thing, they dont WANT to recognise what im saying here. artists want to work, its like telling a graphic designer you want your album cover to be this photo of your face with your logo small in the top corner....


YOU DONT WANT ME TO SPEND 40 HOURS WITH OIL PAINTS AND CANVAS AND INKS AND PHOTOSHOP MAKING A MASTERPIECE?!?!!? YOU JUST WANT A PHOTO WITH A PLOP ON LOGO ANYONE COULD MAKE IN 10 MINUTES?!!?!?!?!?!!?!

BUT WHAT ABOUT MY ARTISTIC VISION!!!!!?!?!?!?!!?








i get it, ive been that graphic designer, you want to work and pull out all the big guns. but sometimes people just want a 4/4 beat with an occasional bleep noise on top, they dont want beethoven all day every day.

Playing Endless Delve, I realize just how much I hate having to farm Sulphite to do the mine.

To me, now that all the crafting recipes have been removed from the mine, the mine should just open up upon reaching maps and everyone should be able to do the mine whenever they want.

Along with this the Atlas should be changed to not require maps. Upon reaching the Atlas/map system, you simply can just run the first map in each zone. Then upon killing the map boss, all the maps connected to that map are unlocked and runnable, allowing you to expand the atlas as you kill the map bosses. Rolling your maps with currency would be handled the same as the conqueror maps currently are.

At this stage of the game I find it completely ridiculous we cannot run or play where we want to play at will.

Speaking of which, the Expedition content needs a buff. Encountering an Expedition in maps is to few and far between. And log book drops are currently non-existent. All my ridiculous amounts play time in Scourge, I have found 3 log books, two of which were dropped pre-map. I have literally found ONE map log book the entire league, and the Atlas passives didn't do diddly to change this. It's ridiculous the log books are this rare and that starting price for any old log book on the trade site is 40 chaos, last I cared to check.

+1

One of the reasons my BF doesn't play the game as much anymore is because of how repetitive act content is. Defeating act 10 Kitava is cool and all, but doing it for the nth time becomes a huge mental drag. He's still unbelievably disappointed that Delve can't be used as both an alternative to leveling and endgame.

For second character and above on softcore I would agree.
Do the acts one per league for softcore...
Let me reroll more builds. Not that I don t enjoy wasting 8 hours on campaign.
I hate the 10 acts, so fking boring, making you swear when you mistake the layout, being actually to play them like a robot, cuz you don`t even interact with them,
Oh look here exile we made leveling harder. Oh look GGG, now I`m forced to pick zoom zoom meta, cuz I fking hate the acts.

Wanted to try a Necro or maybe a melee tank this league, but I won`t waste another 8-10 hours for it...

+1
not having to run lab feels so nice as well.

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Azarhiel wrote:

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Baliqci wrote:

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lagwin1980 wrote:

Not going to happen.

Even assuming it did, they would seriously nerf it.

So, the usual excuse for wanting different levelling is because it is boring doing the same content all the time.
Your typical answer is to give you something that is even more repetitive so you can spam away at the same thing over and over again instead of doing something over and over again....

Also delve is very rewarding, and is gated behind an entry cost, if this was a core option the rewarding part of it will be severely nerfed, a massive reduction in drops across the board and then making side rooms even more rare and boss rooms even more rare, so what you would end up with is a mindless repetitive grind with little reward.

Ight, fine.

I think we'd all be ok with that as long as we're not forced to go talk to X and go fetch Y for NPCs every time we make a new character.

I agree that it'd be tricky to balance especially for hardcore since act bosses have some significance. BUT, GGG seems to be removing outdated content/mechanics and I honestly think the 10 Acts are very, very outdated :p

They won't romove the 10 acts but they acknowledged that act 5-10 was a rushed job and that's why tehy are doing a new story for PoE 2.

But, even with a more refined story, after 6-10 playthroughs, we will be at the same point of not wanting to do it more and the same problem will rise again.

Some players want a fast simple way to endgame content that does not take 20h to do...

You're missing the point.

1- The story could be written by Ernest Hemingway and it would still be the same. For a game that resets every 3 months, shit gets repetitive real quick.

2- It's not about getting to the endgame fast/easy, it's about getting there without getting bored out of your mind. Acts are pretty easy as they are and can be done in like 6 hours tops. They're just fucking boring dude half the time spent is just walking across a funny unrevealed map.

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Baliqci wrote:

1- ... shit gets repetitive real quick.

2- ... it's about getting there without getting bored out of your mind.

You are aware of the conclusion of your statements right?

Or rather why its not worth the effort creating leveling alternatives. They´ll all be boring at some point, its merely a matter of time.

everything does get boring but thats why options are important which is AFAIK their whole league design. Do the content you find interesting at any given moment with quite a decent level of freedom.

I think letting us level in heist or delve or blight even would be a reasonable boon to the game and if they kept the rewards tame wouldn't really have an impact on anything aside from player enjoyment. I get that they love the campaign and they worked hard to create it but nothing changes that we've done it many many times.

I used to make 7-10 characters a league I've got no idea how many times i've run the campaign but its alot, the fact I still do it OK is a testament to how well they made it but I'd still like to level in another way occasionally just to break the monotony.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

I'd still like to level in another way occasionally just to break the monotony.

Im with you on that one for sure.

Its still going to take effort to make it happen and GGG likes to bite more than they can chew for regular releases already - no need to add more.
It wont be fun forever regardless and takes away the opportunity to throw events like this, knowing those will get some attention because its different.

I just fail to see why GGG would do it.
Im not saying I wouldnt enjoy it.