Evasion / dodge revert everything, thanks.
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I'll try to make it quick and simple
Evasion has an enthropy system which will force you taking a hit after X amount of evades. The only reason it was good to have some evade chance its the double layer roll along with dodge. Buffs to evasion at its maximum (75% evade chance) (which everyone already had thanks to blind) will be the worst layer of defence by far if dodge is removed. But it get's worse, with Wind Dancer changes you can multiply what i said by 100. Add to this the spell suppression nonsense you pulled out. Edit: and GL having the spell dodge "option" without wind dancer having any interaction with spells. Sure you can combine more defenses now, and then tell me what points you will have left into dmg nodes. Last edited by Pyrenean#0742 on Oct 7, 2021, 5:12:23 PM Last bumped on Nov 10, 2021, 5:23:43 AM
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In my view, these changes are a GOOD thing for EV builds:
1. Attack Dodge Removal and Buff to EV - I've always felt EV was better than Dodge. If I had the choice of taking 75% EV or 75% Attack Dodge - I would prefer 75% EV - Because it is more reliable for me to have the EV with entropy, than it is to have random % chance - This really shines in 1v1 fights vs. bosses. For packs of mobs - yes it might be an issue - but EV builds these days are nearly all range or pseudo-range, so how often are you standing in the middle of a pack taking melee hits? - For mob projectile attacks - Arrow Dancing is still available to really goose your EV vs. proj attacks - There are also small sources of Avoidance that you can add to builds - Change to the center EV wheel is also great because this wheel has been useless since inception. And most EV builds that wanted good HP had to get the Scion life wheel so at least now there are other useful things to branch into while pathing to the big life wheel Yes we can't layer EV and dodge anymore - but there are 3 things that I try to keep in mind: a) hybrid defenses are even more accessible now - so you do not have to rely solely on EV vs. attacks. We can now use block and also have an easier time doing EV + ES builds with good benefits b) Most right-side builds were never investing into EV to get a high EV % chance to begin with c) Attacks were not really the danger for EV builds (at least for me) - the real danger was spells and lack of mitigation for when I get hit 2. Stun - This is one of the downsides of the changes - With the removal of dodge EV builds will have to be more careful of stun, but it was honestly a bit overpowered that easily getting good amounts of Dodge could solve most stun headaches 3. Blind Change - Again, this is a GOOD thing for EV builds - because it is a nerf to builds that never had high EV to begin that were abusing blind to get moderate levels of EV chance - This nerf means only EV builds benefit the most from blind - AS IT SHOULD BE - not the other way around! 4. Spell Dodge Removal and Spell Suppression - People have been complaining about one-shots to EV builds for many years, I feel spells, and lack of mitigation are really big culprits - GGG's new changes give people FLEXIBILITY to either go for spell mitigation OR retain spell dodge - Because the new Acro keystone allows you to get spell dodge by converting your % chance for spell suppression - For my EV chars - spells are their real weakness, but what I found in general is that spells are typically easier to manually avoid compared to attacks (barring the slowwww wind-up one-shot attacks) - so I would actually prefer greater mitigation vs. spells and NOT chance to avoid - If my math is correct: when you average it out, 1% of Spell Dodge = 2% chance for Spell Suppression - Thus to be on par with the old Phase Acro - you would need to get 60% chance for Spell Suppression - How easy to get that - we don't know yet. But I think this might be easier than most people feel given the ability to get these mods on gear, particularly chest, and also the dex conversion - Let's also not forget about physical spells which EV builds have struggled with - since we had no AR we could not mitigate phys spells when they hit. But now we can - It looks like there will also be a few ways to increase Spell Suppression so instead of mitigating 50% of spell damage, it can mitigate even more - so now EV builds that really want to specialize in defense can actually build a very tanky character 5. Easier Access to Hybrids - This is another great change that will open up new options for EV builds - EV builds can now build around block, and also ES, and recovery, plus the flask changes and the flask nodes to the Ranger side of the tree should help with sustain - So you can still "layer" if you really want to - it's just your layers have changed All in all, I think really good effort by GGG to try something NEW and BOLD while addressing some of the prior defeciencies In terms of cost-efficiency and DPS loss - we don't know until we get the full patch, but I think EV builds would be just fine and there will be new powerful options with dex stacking or the EV-hybrids. Last edited by Ceryneian#3541 on Oct 7, 2021, 5:01:28 AM
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" evasion vs dodge, % for % evasion is better than dodge because it has entropy, thats certainly a thing, entropy is only a good think for chance to avoid mechanics, it actually makes them reliable. removing dodge is still a massive nerf though because people were basically capping their evade chance anyway, or getting close to it, so theyre just taking 300% more damage now because they dont also have 75% dodge, they didnt get any buff to compensate. this is a nerf, a significant one. the blind nerf is a nerf to evasion, its a larger nerf to non evasion characters that used it but that doesnt mean its somehow a buff to evasion characters. its a huge nerf to evasion characters that just happens to be a bigger nerf to non evasion characters. this is a nerf, a significant one. you could always layer defenses, you could always layer block or energy shield with evasion. theres no easier access, its the same as it was before. this isnt a buff. spell suppression caps out at you taking 100% more spell damage than capping out spell dodge did. this is a nerf, a significant one. wind dancer now makes you take more damage, when your entire problem was spike damage taking a node that makes the potential spikes bigger is completely unuable, this node is now worse than useless its flat out suicide and should never be taken. this is also a nerf. i dont rly see how this all adds up to being better for ev builds. it seems to me like evasion builds just got entirely shit on and are massively worse off from almost every single angle. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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Sup Snorkle,
" EV % chance is capped 95% I believe, I don't think people were capping EV or even getting close to the capped 95%, and if so it was probably very high investment. And if someone could get 95% EV chance - why would they even bother adding dodge on top of that, they'd already be at 95% chance to avoid all attacks. " Yes it's a nerf, but relative to other characters that were using blind - EV is better off for this change. Nearly every build in the game was using blind - even necromancers. So these builds that were using blind that are not high EV - are going to be worse off than an EV build - this is how it should have been in the first place. " An EV build could not layer with block or ES because taking Acro (which every EV build did) - gives a penalty on block and ES. So you COULD do it, but hardly anyone did because the penalty on Acro is too much. But now you can because Acro has been changed and also the key defensive passives for block and ES are no longer gated behind Gladiator, Occultist and Trickster. " Just like you say in your section on wind dancer - "the entire problem was spike damage" - so for me at least I want mitigation for spells more than I want avoidance. EV builds are now ranged and pseudo-range, so really it's just spells and projectile attacks that are the main issues (IMO). But I can see why some people would view this more as a nerf, and some think it's a buff. Personally I think it's a buff because the nature of spell damage for my characters is one where I value mitigation more than avoidance, given that the avoidance can in some part be done manually for spells. GGG is still giving you the option to take spell dodge if you want using the conversion = you don't have to go with suppression. |
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not every evsion build took acro, ci evasion was huge, the best evasion builds were ci because they were the ones with 10-15k hp pools that could take the huge 1 hit damage.
you could already do those things, you had the choice to do those things or take acro, and now the choice to take acro has been taken away. thats not a buff, you just have less options. if people didnt do certain things very much because acro was there then that is because acro was better, so taking it away and them now going and doing these other things is a nerf, if it was a buff they would have been doing them anyway instead of taking acro. i do use ci + evasion a lot, and armour + evasion, neither with acro obviously. so i dont think acro was always better personally, but thats still not rly a buff because i was already doing this other thing, its just neutral. those characters may have been buffed because their armour or energy shield may have got better, but thats not rly a credit to evasion, that side of their defense either stayed the same or honestly got worse, it mostly got worse because of the blind nerfs. with all the more chance to evade etc on the raider + blind id see pob figures for evasion going into the 90%s on actual full evasion rangers for sure. i personally think my serious evasion characters who were not hybrid with another primary defense are at least 50% worse now, every one of them ive made in years and years, minimum their defense is now halved, it could possibly math out to be significantly worse than halved. these changes are a gigantic, catastrophic nerf to evasion builds. virtually everything is worse or completely deleted, dodge is deleted, wind dancer is deleted from the game no one should ever take that node under any circumstance, everything else is nerfed, nothing got better for them and they probably now even lose damage because they will have to seek out all this spell suppression stuff which no doubt will cost them more points than acro did and leave them taking 100% more spell damage than before for their efforts. i want to be positive about the changes but they said they were buffing defences and the reality is the changes are like 30% buff 70% nerf overall, and for evasion builds its just 100% nerf, they just got totally obliterated, like 60%+ of their ehp deleted from the game. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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So how's everyone feeling about the EV and spell suppression so far?
Last edited by Ceryneian#3541 on Nov 9, 2021, 12:53:35 AM
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It's a buff all the way to the end of red maps for progression.
It's a nerf if you were playing Evasion as your 3rd build. I've never had a smoother experience playing Evasion as a first character. Melee Strike build no less. Instead of running around with 1% Physical Reduction I have 23% just from wearing a Replica Abysus which Spell Suppression works exceptionally well with. Still have 64% Evasion which is about 14% less than I'd have on previous chars with much better gear. Otherwise you replace dodge with block. Yea, you could layer both before but you could also 100% up-time layer Enduring Cry + Immortal Call till Second Wind became trash. "Never trust floating women." -Officer Kirac
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" The changes are great. My current TR champion worth 10 times less than my bleed gladiator last league is more tanky despite having less life. 40k eva, 30k armor, 20 fortification, 100% spell suppression, 75% chaos resistance, immunity to extra dmg from crits, stun immunity, bleed immunity and 8% additional evade chance from watcher's eye make me much less likely to die compared to the gladiator. Dying 10 times less doing juiced up expedition logbooks with bosses than I did last league. "How come only evil forces were released?" - "Because there are no good forces." "So, then. You don't believe that there is a God." - "There was a god." "Well, then. Where is he now?" - "I killed him," said Kane. Last edited by k4n3#0976 on Nov 9, 2021, 9:05:26 AM
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Spell suppression is so good, with 100% of that I can tank a Sirus die beam even on my squishy trapper.
Yeah the loss of attack dodge hurts a bit, but then again with the aura reservation changes it's possible to run both grace + determination plus a 3rd aura on almost any character. Defiance banner is another really good, cheap defensive layer. Imo dodge was a bit silly before because you could get 50/30 avoidance with 5 points on the tree (and 65/45 on raider). Getting that much block is much harder in comparison. |
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" How do you do it? I get murdered by Sirus beams, all his stuff on AW8 is death sentence :( In my profile you can see I also have 100% spell supp and other defence layers |
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