Why the gambling mechanics are so bad..

This is not going to be a post about the moral issues with gambling.
This only looking at gambling as a mechanic in POE

Definition: Gambling in POE, where you spend currency to create items without engaging in actual game progressing activities (ie:maps). So rolling a map for improved quantity is not considered here.

This is something that GGG is really trying to make it as random as possible and it is a really really poor game design most players rather buy the items they need than crafting it. I have not engaged in any crafting or even 6 linking for a few seasons now.

1. The biggest issue that ggg fails to understand is unlike real gambling with money, if you lose, it doesn't affect your life very much (for most people who are responsible gamblers anyway), you just move on with your life. but with POE if you fail on your gamble you are literally losing progression, since the game requires gear to progress. And its such a bad feeling for anyone to feel like they literally just wasted their life away.


2. Unlike real gambling you more likely to remember the times you lose in POE than when you win, precisely because it punishes your progression when you lose, everyone remembers that time when 10k fusing are wasted and no one really cares about the time when you link something in 200 fusing.

3. The gambling mechanic puts you into a loop of inactive game play, not only you are not playing the actual game when u clicking on items in your HO, but also when you do get something you have to then engage large amounts of trading to sell the items then trade for the actual items you need. whiles the actual game is not played.

I honestly just want to play the actual game and not clicking on freaking astro plates in my hide out.

I know GGG dont give a rats about Andys like me, but its just my opinion and at this point i am actively trying out new games and if i find something i like just like Diablo 2,3 and the upcoming 4. I would never return again.

You know, I decided to support GGG in a same philosophical way they treat players, so:

I got redeemer's influenced vermillion ring i84 and throwing at it any decent minion essence when I`m finding one. The goal is to hit

1. 25+ dex
2. 55+ flat life
3. 35+ total of any resists
4. 20+ minion damage
5. And ofc the essence minion move speed (yeeah! prohibited in PoE determinism ;).
6. Also decided to let the game surprise me for good with the resting 6th mod on at item.

And then I got it, GGG will have my happy support!
So..

Guess what? This became fun! So I realized where fun is now, the way is Chris having fun with us and I fully understand him now!

Generally I would also like to see more deterministic crafting. However, I think your arguments are weak.
1) 6-linking is deterministic, you can just farm the fusings and buy it on the crafting bench. Also, if its a rare item, you can get the quality to 48% and it's a really high chance you will need <1000 fusings.
2) I agree that crafting feels kinds bad in that you might waste everything without getting even the slightest upgrade. However, if you are smart about it, you can still do lots of things. craftofexile.com is really great to figure out the expected cost and the best way to craft something (if you have decent knowledge of the mechanics). So you might want to setlle with a T3 mod, if you know, that getting T2 will likely cost 5x as many tries.
I think this is the main issue: you need a huge knowledge of all crafting mechanics and their interactions, as well as 3rd party tools/websites.

"

Nyalee wrote:

Generally I would also like to see more deterministic crafting. However, I think your arguments are weak.
1) 6-linking is deterministic, you can just farm the fusings and buy it on the crafting bench. Also, if its a rare item, you can get the quality to 48% and it's a really high chance you will need <1000 fusings.
2) I agree that crafting feels kinds bad in that you might waste everything without getting even the slightest upgrade. However, if you are smart about it, you can still do lots of things. craftofexile.com is really great to figure out the expected cost and the best way to craft something (if you have decent knowledge of the mechanics). So you might want to setlle with a T3 mod, if you know, that getting T2 will likely cost 5x as many tries.
I think this is the main issue: you need a huge knowledge of all crafting mechanics and their interactions, as well as 3rd party tools/websites.

1: 6 linking is RNG, fusings are rng and cards that deterministic give fusing are RNG. To 6 link you need rng luck. it can happen with he first click or in my case it never happens. Which ism called RNG

2: Besides the crafting bench, there is no crafting. The random item spam generation by trowing currency on it hoping you get the right mods is not crafting. Manipulating an item so only certain mods can roll is still not crafting especially not if that is gated behind mods you can obtain by RNG items

Deterministic would mean, if i do X it will be certain i will get Y, e.g if i farm map x i will get 5 fusing on average, if i spend an average of 500 fusing i will get my 6 link.

But in Poe it's i can do map x and not get Y i can use all my league gained fusing for 6 leagues and never get a 6 link.

"

Nyalee wrote:

Generally I would also like to see more deterministic crafting. However, I think your arguments are weak.
1) 6-linking is deterministic, you can just farm the fusings and buy it on the crafting bench. Also, if its a rare item, you can get the quality to 48% and it's a really high chance you will need <1000 fusings.
2) I agree that crafting feels kinds bad in that you might waste everything without getting even the slightest upgrade. However, if you are smart about it, you can still do lots of things. craftofexile.com is really great to figure out the expected cost and the best way to craft something (if you have decent knowledge of the mechanics). So you might want to setlle with a T3 mod, if you know, that getting T2 will likely cost 5x as many tries.
I think this is the main issue: you need a huge knowledge of all crafting mechanics and their interactions, as well as 3rd party tools/websites.

you completely miss the point, I dont wana play the game from my hide out period. That is my 3rd point of the argument. Its boring and its a waste of my gaming time. I have tried to craft things i know how to look up mods etc ive tried all that, its boring i want to play a game where i go and kill shit. The gambling mechanic is a complete feels bad and a waste of time and progression. I dont care if it sometimes pay off i dont wana go to sleep at night thinking i just wasted 5 exalts awakener some astro plate that didn give me open prefix or life. Its a waste of time and GGG needs to respect my time as a gamer.

"

Shadeless01 wrote:

"

Nyalee wrote:

Generally I would also like to see more deterministic crafting. However, I think your arguments are weak.
1) 6-linking is deterministic, you can just farm the fusings and buy it on the crafting bench. Also, if its a rare item, you can get the quality to 48% and it's a really high chance you will need <1000 fusings.
2) I agree that crafting feels kinds bad in that you might waste everything without getting even the slightest upgrade. However, if you are smart about it, you can still do lots of things. craftofexile.com is really great to figure out the expected cost and the best way to craft something (if you have decent knowledge of the mechanics). So you might want to setlle with a T3 mod, if you know, that getting T2 will likely cost 5x as many tries.
I think this is the main issue: you need a huge knowledge of all crafting mechanics and their interactions, as well as 3rd party tools/websites.

1: 6 linking is RNG, fusings are rng and cards that deterministic give fusing are RNG. To 6 link you need rng luck. it can happen with he first click or in my case it never happens. Which ism called RNG

2: Besides the crafting bench, there is no crafting. The random item spam generation by trowing currency on it hoping you get the right mods is not crafting. Manipulating an item so only certain mods can roll is still not crafting especially not if that is gated behind mods you can obtain by RNG items

Deterministic would mean, if i do X it will be certain i will get Y, e.g if i farm map x i will get 5 fusing on average, if i spend an average of 500 fusing i will get my 6 link.

But in Poe it's i can do map x and not get Y i can use all my league gained fusing for 6 leagues and never get a 6 link.

Thats a good point too. My main issue with it is that im not actually playing an ARPG when im sitting on trade sites and looking up mods and spam click one item. Its awful!

"

BaneslayerAngel wrote:

Thats a good point too. My main issue with it is that im not actually playing an ARPG when im sitting on trade sites and looking up mods and spam click one item. Its awful!

and i completely agree with that

edit: GGG does agree that itemization really needs to be improved, biggest problem is there, that they still think it's fun to trade so it won't be items you can use at it's of course gated behind the shitty RNG system.

ps: I do not mind RNG till some extent, e.g. an item exists out of many mods, a tier 10 item with the right mods won't be as good as a super lucky rng drop with almost all tier 1's. It actually would make the grind sensible.. You could also rng the amount of mods, but hey that's not GGG's vision.

"

BaneslayerAngel wrote:

1. The biggest issue that ggg fails to understand is unlike real gambling with money, if you lose, it doesn't affect your life very much (for most people who are responsible gamblers anyway), you just move on with your life. but with POE if you fail on your gamble you are literally losing progression, since the game requires gear to progress. And its such a bad feeling for anyone to feel like they literally just wasted their life away.

Agreed. The rare times I gamble with real money, I also get the benefit of the rest of the experience: having a few drinks with friends and family, having a nice dinner afterward, and getting to stay in a nice hotel room at a discounted rate. I also can set a maximum amount of money I am willing to lose, stop there, and enjoy the rest of the evening.

Path of Exile does not have those secondary benefits, and so I either get nothing for my time or have to engage with the trading system. Enter more time spent *hoping* to derive some benefit from my work.

"

2. Unlike real gambling you more likely to remember the times you lose in POE than when you win, precisely because it punishes your progression when you lose, everyone remembers that time when 10k fusing are wasted and no one really cares about the time when you link something in 200 fusing.

My record for fastest 6-link fusion was last league, when it took three attempts (on only a 20% quality item - I was shocked). I usually try fusing attempts when I otherwise wouldn't be doing something else in PoE, but it's possible to run out of fusing orbs. And then there's the 1500-orb 6-link recipe - buried in the mine and more RNG.

"

3. The gambling mechanic puts you into a loop of inactive game play, not only you are not playing the actual game when u clicking on items in your HO, but also when you do get something you have to then engage large amounts of trading to sell the items then trade for the actual items you need. whiles the actual game is not played.

This is really the killer for me. Yes, I play SSF exclusively, which is not the primary playstyle. That is 100% on me. At the same time, I'm supposed to be excited by in-game drops (according to the developers' visi*n). Thanks to SSF, I actually identify filtered rares, and I almost never get something better than what I have equipped after entering maps. Looking at my current loadout, the weapon, jewelry, gloves, and boots were all rolled from white items, and cost a ton of currency to get into usable shape. The shield was from Rog (thanks, Rog!), as was the helmet. The base body armor was from Gwennen, but I scoured and rerolled it into shape. How am I supposed to be interested in item drops when nothing equipped after level 90 was obtained as-is from a drop this entire league?

GGG's messaging has been all over the place and they need to clearly communicate how itemization is meant to work: (1) get good items off of the ground and reduce the need for 3rd party craft/trade tools, or; (2) require players to hunt around for others' failed crafts that happen to work for them while ignoring non-currency item drops in play.

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RedHenrik wrote:

GGG's messaging has been all over the place and they need to clearly communicate how itemization is meant to work: (1) get good items off of the ground and reduce the need for 3rd party craft/trade tools, or; (2) require players to hunt around for others' failed crafts that happen to work for them while ignoring non-currency item drops in play.

I don't think they'll do good items from the ground - when they talk about making drops exciting they also specify that exciting means you can sell it. If everyone can realistically find good items then their precious market will be flooded with them and these items won't feel good anymore because they'll cost 1c.

Personally, I don't believe in these itemization improvements, I think they'll find a way to make people pickup rares but these won't be usable. Maybe something potentially good with some new kind of good 'ol 100ex gamble or something like that. For example, if you can see that item is influenced only after identification, but in some other form.

"

SpacePilot3000 wrote:

I don't think they'll do good items from the ground - when they talk about making drops exciting they also specify that exciting means you can sell it. If everyone can realistically find good items then their precious market will be flooded with them and these items won't feel good anymore because they'll cost 1c.

Even that might be an improvement - they might accidentally drop something relevant to my build!

"

Personally, I don't believe in these itemization improvements, I think they'll find a way to make people pickup rares but these won't be usable. Maybe something potentially good with some new kind of good 'ol 100ex gamble or something like that. For example, if you can see that item is influenced only after identification, but in some other form.

I'm just trying to imagine what 100 exalted orbs would look like in my stash. Shiny! OK, back to reality. If they want to do something like your nightmare scenario, I'd almost settle for them just admitting it at this point. At least then I know that I'm stuck rooting through the garbage going forward.