Why are their mobile games with better pvp? Or games with less cash shop funds & less playerbase?

I'm not saying you should try these games, but to give out a reference.

Mobile game: Dragon's Nest Mobile. Had 1vs1 tournaments, better dodge mechanics for 1vs1, was ARPG, & had guild vs guild. I don't play it, because it's p2w, but to give GGG an example of how SLOW they are updating pvp, that's it. When a mobile game is mocking you, you know your slow at figuring out how to update your 8 year game.

Planetside 2: I do reccomend this game, because it's not p2w. Has better mmofps 300 people battles than fortnite even. Has less open world pvp lag than WoW's battleground servers. It came out around the same time as POE. Has the same amount of updates. Earns thousands or millions less in cashshop money. Doesn't have a international playerbase. Has less people online by the thousands. Yet produces the same level of updates, plus way better pvp battles with rpg elements.

Thus this thread is devoted to somewhat joking with GGG, by listing mobile games with better pvp. Go for it, list a mobile game with better pvp. lol...

Or a free pc game, that has it, which has less playerbase or less cash shop funds.

Not to get people to play those games, just to give a comparison.

P.s. I also want this thread to talk about, WHY so many of you talk about league updates only, [Removed by Support]. " revert back to this update blah blah blah " pve this pve that. Who cares. Yall PVE'rs are the reason World of Warcraft, during 2005 year, went the path of adding more stupid dungeons. Rekinds of Van Cleef instances. When dungeons were the WORST part of the game & still are. When Blizzard could have been implementing open world pvp since 2005 & onward!

Why in Asmongold's interview in 1 hour of chatting with Chris. Did nobody on twitch chat, nor chris, nor Asmon, nor Rich, mention pvp at all.

P.s. Royal isn't even helping the main game, if anything its distracting the main game from having real pvp updates. Get rid of Royal. Get rid of the person who came up with that idea, after playing League of Noob Legends. Facepalm. Hire someone with better pvp ideas.

P.s.s. The Skill tree needs to be balanced for pvp. Things like " Immune to chaos damage. Means that passive would make anyone OP verse chaos casters, get rid of that passive.

Enough talk about modes. This game needs social aspects, bigger towns, mmo elements, group vs group pvp.

So yeah list a game as I did to compare, to mock, to joke. Maybe even list a mobile game to rubb it in GGG's face some more, 8 years & their still behind what mobile games can offer for pvp?! Pshhh

Or simply talk about why so many people neglect this topic, for topics like leagues. GGG has to obviously be holding back their potential to update the game. I get their working on POE 2, but I doubt even for POE 2 they've figured out how to update pvp or the social elements. It's still a 1 track narrow path to PVE only content. Nobody hangs out around town, the social aspect of this game is empty, global chat is not enough at all.

Heck even games from 20 years ago, which were kinda like ARPG, " Ragnarok Online " my favorite nostalgia game, had war of emperium for guild pvp, & arena areas. Also Ragnarok Online earned less with their cash shop, I'm sure.

Obviously I want POE to do good, but simply PVE content isn't good enough. Need RP content. Social content. Town event content. Group vs group pvp content. & Anything else besides just league updates man.

its much harder to balance pve vs pvp...

Hard or not. PVE will never be balanced, until pvp 1vs1's are balanced. That's why you got all these limited end game builds, because every skill hasn't been tested on 1vs1 pvp battles.

Short answer: pvp DOES balance pve.

They aren't 'slow' to update PvP. They aren't trying to update it. If anything, since race seasons were still a thing, they've been dismantling it. Maybe BR mode will represent a new interest in PvP but I doubt it.

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innervation wrote:

They aren't 'slow' to update PvP. They aren't trying to update it. If anything, since race seasons were still a thing, they've been dismantling it. Maybe BR mode will represent a new interest in PvP but I doubt it.

Well I'm glad they are working on it, if that's true.

However 2013 - 2021 is super slow.

Ragnarok Online was released 20 years ago, around 2002. Yet did pvp 1vs1 skill balance & guild vs guild, better. At the time.

So yeah, generally speaking, that's slow.

While having better stat builds than D2 had. & IRO had better social hangout areas near town, than POE or D2 had or has. Bigger towns too.




P.s. Also D2 had a limited multiplayer amount of players, because it's a old game. GGG has the funds to make the game more MMO like, it not some 90's game. People are gonna quit Lost Ark when it's released in english, because of its p2w qualities. But still POE should update its game to be more broad of a multiplayer game, like Lost Ark is. Both being ARPG's. So they should stop modeling this game after D2 & go for something bigger. Their gonna keep updating this game anyways, so that's the route they should aim for.

PVP only get balanced if you post the broken build in the pvp feedback so they can nerf it. They won t balance stuff they are not aware off.

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PrairieTutanka wrote:

Well I'm glad they are working on it, if that's true.

However 2013 - 2021 is super slow.

Ragnarok Online was released 20 years ago, around 2002. Yet did pvp 1vs1 skill balance & guild vs guild, better. At the time.

So yeah, generally speaking, that's slow.

While having better stat builds than D2 had. & IRO had better social hangout areas near town, than POE or D2 had or has. Bigger towns too.




P.s. Also D2 had a limited multiplayer amount of players, because it's a old game. GGG has the funds to make the game more MMO like, it not some 90's game. People are gonna quit Lost Ark when it's released in english, because of its p2w qualities. But still POE should update its game to be more broad of a multiplayer game, like Lost Ark is. Both being ARPG's. So they should stop modeling this game after D2 & go for something bigger. Their gonna keep updating this game anyways, so that's the route they should aim for.

PvP in game like PoE when 1 build has 1 mil dps and other does 40 mil in single hit will never be balanced, its stupid idea at best. They shouldnt waste time on it. Thats what they should do. Games that focus on both PvP and PvE always fail in one of those, always. PoE was and should remain PvE game. If you want PvP i would say go try LoL or Dota, those are balanced around PvP.

Forced inclusivity is the worst thing game developer can do to his product.

lol how is 40 mill dps verse 1 mill dps, even balanced for PVE itself?? IT'S NOT! God I dislike this troll reply. It really shows everything that's wrong with PVE'ers.

What games that focus on both fail? Retarded claim. If you balance a underplayed skill for 1vs1 pvp, you balance it for pve too! Did you just recommend A MOBA?! FOR PVP?!?!?! What a noob! Your the reason they built the lame Royal Mode. They need to get rid of Royal.

Actually I just listed Ragnarok Online, which had decent balance, they could have done better, tho atleast War of Emperium / guild vs guild was somewhat balanced. Are you insisting that WoW should have never tried to balance it's pvp? Just because it has PVE.

Actually games don't " fail " because they try to balance pvp, they " fail " because they don't try. WoW never " tried " to balance it's BG maps. They don't " Try " to balance all their 1 shot mechanics, even when the youtuber Rextroy shows them to the dev team.

I quit WoW classic due to Alterac Valley BG, not being balanced for the alliance side. People are quitting WoW retail for 1 shot mechanics. & I'm sure people have quit POE for its lack of PVP content (for the main game).

Explain to me, how balancing a underplayed skill for pvp 1vs1, doesn't balance pve? Explain. I'll bet you 1,000$ that if a skill is OP for 1vs1 pvp, it's OP for pve lategame too. They are connected, they are the same, they are BOTH NEEDED.

For example if Frost Shock was imbalanced or OP in WoW's pvp during vanilla, guess what, it's ALSO OP / imbalanced for PVE too. Why? Because kiting is a gemeplay mechanic for both pvp & pve.

Also builds shouldn't have a freaking gap of 40 mill dps, wth is that? So retarded. That's not skill to " build " that's just a flawed system.




PVP balance for 1vs1's means range vs melee gets balanced for PVE.

PVP balance means more builds are useful for lategame PVE.

PVP balance means more underplayed skills get balanced for PVE.

PVP balance means dodge mechanics get updated for PVE.




Balancing pvp has never made PVE worst, in any game, so I don't know what your talking about. It's the other way around. Where PVE content makes PVP get neglected. I've never even seen a mmo, where PVP content makes PVE get neglected, it doesn't even work like that.

Also Moba's are pvp games for babies. Bad examples. May as well be suggesting a mobile phone game (sarcasm). I don't know what mmo recently that has done pvp justice besides Planetside 2 & Guild Wars 2. In the past 20 years.

WoW retail has 1 shots. D2 had 1 shots. Final Fantasy community says their pvp is boring or lacking somehow. Guild Wars 2 probably is the best example for balanced pvp for team matches, but their battleground pvp got ignored to where nobody plays it anymore. Lost Ark's regular pvp matches aren't p2w I hear, but Lost Ark's open world pvp or guild vs guild is gonna be p2w, so hard pass. New World supposedly has decent casual pvp, but I don't want to support Amazon as a company. Than Ashes of Creation is trying to have good battleground pvp, so we'll see.



P.s. If your primarily a PVE'er, don't even bother replying to this thread. Thiers an entire audience your trying to brush under the rug. Go play your basic generic league gameplay. Let the real pvp'ers discuss. & lasly this isn't just a pvp topic, feel free to talk about social aspects of the game, needing updates too.

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PrairieTutanka wrote:

Ragnarok Online was released 20 years ago, around 2002. Yet did pvp 1vs1 skill balance & guild vs guild, better. At the time.

Why do people keep insisting that the time at which something was coded has anything to do with how things were implemented in a game?
You either put a whole lot of work in to balance (or you luck out and just hit the sweet spot, although unlikely), or you don't.
And with as many variables as in PoE, it's really something I wouldn't even consider possible, let alone every new league, when stuff is nerfed, buffed, removed and added.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

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PrairieTutanka wrote:

Ragnarok Online was released 20 years ago, around 2002. Yet did pvp 1vs1 skill balance & guild vs guild, better. At the time.

Why do people keep insisting that the time at which something was coded has anything to do with how things were implemented in a game?
You either put a whole lot of work in to balance (or you luck out and just hit the sweet spot, although unlikely), or you don't.
And with as many variables as in PoE, it's really something I wouldn't even consider possible, let alone every new league, when stuff is nerfed, buffed, removed and added.

Oh look another PVE'er making excuses for a team which probably has put little to no effort in pvp balance as compared to leagues. " Not possible " is B.S. If I hear that 1 more time, I'm gonna freak out. It's definitely possible & theirs MMO's out there that have way more to consider for pvp balance, than a ARPG has.

Also I just mentioned pve & pvp balance compliment eachother, so stop pretending it won't help league balance too, when it 1000% would. If you can't understand how making even 1 skill at a time, more balanced for 1vs1 duels, would help endgame pve build balance, than don't bother replying.

Ragnarok Online, different coding or not, it's still technically a ARPG or close enough, with zoned maps too. Yes 20 years ago, means 20 years more to improve on similar features. To say they have to start pvp balance from ground zero, is a misconception, no they don't. They just have to START.

I'm beginning to believe people commenting have overpowered 1 shot / ez mode / unbalanced league builds, they don't want nerfed. Enough talk about leagues, that goes for the entire general forum. So over hearing about league stuff, this game has potential to be so much more than just league updates only.

They have time to figure it out.
Stop making excuses.