GGG claims they want to slow down PoE, yet their design says otherwise.

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Xtorma wrote:

Folks tend to fight when they lose something. It's not like these players made up 3.13. It was given to them to like. It was designed to be fun for their playstyle and ability. If it wasn't designed that way , then it was a stupid move, built upon earlier stupid moves, because it didn't get there overnight.

I understand where you are coming from, it's all good for you. I think we can both agree that if the game has evolved into something we no longer find fun then we should search for something that fulfills that requirement for us. It comes as no surprise to me though, that people are acting out on their frustrations.

Some folks are stubborn and do not realize they are beating on a steel door with a feather. Some will continue though, because to them...it is a big deal. To all the feather warriors out there, all I can say is there are going to be a whole lot of bald birds running around and their sacrifice is meaningless. You are never going to get what you want.

Doesn't change the fact that PoE is still a very fast game. 'Nothing' has changed in that regard. They still want us to go fast. They're still going to add some kind of clear speed/timed mechanics here and there. Chris has been VERY direct in the past, saying "a fast build is better than a slow build - you should want to go fast". (Which, in itself is kinda stupid, if you ask me, and I don't necessarily agree with that vision.) But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some kind of limits.

People seem to think "slowing down the game" means "a slow game", which is just - in lack of better words; stupid - and so far from reality that it hurts my soul. They've slowed down the game A LITTLE BIT, and people are starting to compare it to D2, and that Chris' "vision" is to go back to that level of speed, which is a level of hyperboling I find, again - in lack of better words; childish.

Hence my first sentence in this thread: A total lack of nuance. "Slower" does not mean "slow". Hamilton is fast AF. Verstappen is slower, but still fast AF - and way faster than Ayrton Senna (D2), may he rest in peace.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

Folks tend to fight when they lose something. It's not like these players made up 3.13. It was given to them to like. It was designed to be fun for their playstyle and ability. If it wasn't designed that way , then it was a stupid move, built upon earlier stupid moves, because it didn't get there overnight.

I understand where you are coming from, it's all good for you. I think we can both agree that if the game has evolved into something we no longer find fun then we should search for something that fulfills that requirement for us. It comes as no surprise to me though, that people are acting out on their frustrations.

Some folks are stubborn and do not realize they are beating on a steel door with a feather. Some will continue though, because to them...it is a big deal. To all the feather warriors out there, all I can say is there are going to be a whole lot of bald birds running around and their sacrifice is meaningless. You are never going to get what you want.

Doesn't change the fact that PoE is still a very fast game. 'Nothing' has changed in that regard. They still want us to go fast. They're still going to add some kind of clear speed/timed mechanics here and there. Chris has been VERY direct in the past, saying "a fast build is better than a slow build - you should want to go fast". (Which, in itself is kinda stupid, if you ask me, and I don't necessarily agree with that vision.) But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some kind of limits.

People seem to think "slowing down the game" means "a slow game", which is just - in lack of better words; stupid - and so far from reality that it hurts my soul. They've slowed down the game A LITTLE BIT, and people are starting to compare it to D2, and that Chris' "vision" is to go back to that level of speed, which is a level of hyperboling I find, again - in lack of better words; childish.

Hence my first sentence in this thread: A total lack of nuance. "Slower" does not mean "slow". Hamilton is fast AF. Verstappen is slower, but still fast AF - and way faster than Ayrton Senna (D2), may he rest in peace.

Depends entirely on the size of the scale, but that really doesn't matter. You and I are just debating for the sake of debating, nothing can change what is coming or what was lost.

Can't speak for everyone but I'm under no illusions that any of this makes any difference. We are on a game forum and I'm doing forum things and posting what I feel like posting.

Not sure who's more pathological, the complainers who think they are making a difference or the complainers complaining about the complainers like that makes a difference.

Anyway I think we are talking about the same kind of slow for the most part, the nuance or lack there of was assumed on your end. Even the tankiest jugg builds fly compared to the speed of many other games. You could go fast even in the early stages of poe, I used to farm piety with a flicker striker. That's kind of the problem anyway, another communication failure? When CW says slower he probably just means progression wise. Wants us to spend more time on the looting/crafting treadmill. Would explain why they've never openly embraced a 'speed meta' while the game blasts off into space. It means something totally different to them.

Game still feels okay if you copy a successful build or just know what you are doing. Lots of people don't play at such a high level though and just wanna play the builds and playstyles that they like, so it sucks for them when suddenly those builds feel bad to play and require a bunch of trading to get back some of what they lost. People's slower, non op, comfy builds get collaterally nerfed because of FastAF type builds, or unkillable facetank sirus builds.

Well that and 'meta shakeup' like that doesn't happen naturally in any game with balance passes, no they need to force it.

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Xtorma wrote:

You and I are just debating for the sake of debating, nothing can change what is coming or what was lost.

Of course we are, that's what we do in "General Discussion"; we're debating. That's why I'm here; to debate, see different arguments, learn, gather information and discuss something I care about.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but I always think that people get better perspective on things when they experience counter arguments and people disagreeing with them, instead of today's media, tailored to only show you arguments and information that back your own view.

I respect people that love Harvest. I respect people that think the game is too fast. I respect people that think the game is too slow. What I don't respect, is people posting in "General Discussion" and a) do not want to discuss or b) only looking for confirmation on their views.

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Phrazz wrote:

This is about nuance.

"Slowing down" does not mean "not going fast". They do want us to go fast. They do want the game to be fast. They just feel it was a little bit too fast, so they nerfed it a little bit regarding speed.

I still struggle to see how anyone can make such a big deal about it.

Well I don't think anyone expect them to go back to 2013 style gameplay.
But to some extent they do want the game to slow down. But at the same time they only keep adding mechanics thats all about speed.
As if thats the game need more of that...can't other challenges be added?

Being offensive has already alot of advantages. But it also leads to gameplay were you most of the time just explode stuff. But now and then something hits you and then you instead are insta killed. It becomes very hard to balance it propely.

A mechanic like riual was messy and got old real, yet they add ultimatum which has similar mechanics. Yet another clusterfuck on the screen. Why keep adding more of that?
Both from a visual and a gameplay standpoint its kinda bad.

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WickedSausage wrote:

Well I don't think anyone expect them to go back to 2013 style gameplay.
But to some extent they do want the game to slow down. But at the same time they only keep adding mechanics thats all about speed.
As if thats the game need more of that...can't other challenges be added?

Being offensive has already alot of advantages. But it also leads to gameplay were you most of the time just explode stuff. But now and then something hits you and then you instead are insta killed. It becomes very hard to balance it propely.

A mechanic like riual was messy and got old real, yet they add ultimatum which has similar mechanics. Yet another clusterfuck on the screen. Why keep adding more of that?
Both from a visual and a gameplay standpoint its kinda bad.

Timed and speed-driven mechanics have been a part of this game for years. While I personally do not like them, it's where we end up when offense always trumps defense. And for that to change, this game really needs a shakeup from top to toe, which I don't think we should expect.

The game isn't slower now, than it was when Incursion was added. The game isn't slower now than it was when Legion was added. At least not at the high end.

They've said that they will look at defenses in the next league(s), because they aren't happy with the current state of defenses. I find that positive, even though it's strange, as they have done nothing but nerfed defenses since like forever. They've also said that Ultimatum was a "mistake", so I don't think that clusterfuck of "everhting at once" will happen again.

Going forward I don't think we'll be seeing another league with time gated mechanics like Legion, Breach, Delirium. Sure there will be stuff where it's advantageous to clear ASAP but nothing where you are actively racing against a timer.

Ritual, Ultimatum, Expedition - you can take as long as you want, I think that's what the blueprint will be. Ultimatum did have the Ruin mechanic but you can just not take that on a slow clearing build.

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RandallPOE wrote:

Ritual, Ultimatum, Expedition - you can take as long as you want, I think that's what the blueprint will be going forward. Ultimatum did have the Ruin mechanic but you can just not take that on a slow clearing build.

I actually liked expedition somewhat. Could have some pretty intressting fights vs some mobs. Mostly the rewards that felt very inconsistant.

As for Ritual, you can't really take as long as you want because your gonna want to kill things in there as fast as possible to make sure you can stay alive.
So it is kinda speed dependant. But to me Ritual's biggest sin is just the messy gameplay.
Its a complete eyesore and it turns into exactly what GGG said they wanted to go away from. Insane button mashing.


Still worst game mechanic has to be Blight. Like both thematically and gameplay wise it does not at all fit a game like PoE. It can be damn rewarding, don't get me wrong...but its boring and ugly as hell.

I liked ultimatum a lot, you might not think so from how I talk about the game but...

It paused on the reward screen, no matter how hectic it got if you just made it to the next stage you could take a breath and think about your next move. It rewarded both offensive and defensive builds more fairly than most leagues. I would try to complete the whole thing most of the time unless a reward popped up I really didn't want to lose. Since you actually had time to think, when I died it felt like my own fault, I bit off more than I could chew, didn't pay attention etc... Well aside from performance issues, those were pretty frustrating.

I like blight too, but it's really lacking in visual clarity for me. Green and red color deficiency in my eyes, hard to see the enemies and what is shooting me with everything cluttering the screen sometimes.

I dislike expedition, it slows you down in a bad way imo. Even if it has some good rewards to work toward it's just clunky and annoying with all the clicking and fragments for me, and I don't even have issues with my hands... yet. I skip it unless the layout is really good, I just can't be bothered. It's not remotely fun for me.

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WickedSausage wrote:

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RandallPOE wrote:

Ritual, Ultimatum, Expedition - you can take as long as you want, I think that's what the blueprint will be going forward. Ultimatum did have the Ruin mechanic but you can just not take that on a slow clearing build.

I actually liked expedition somewhat. Could have some pretty intressting fights vs some mobs. Mostly the rewards that felt very inconsistant.

As for Ritual, you can't really take as long as you want because your gonna want to kill things in there as fast as possible to make sure you can stay alive.
So it is kinda speed dependant. But to me Ritual's biggest sin is just the messy gameplay.
Its a complete eyesore and it turns into exactly what GGG said they wanted to go away from. Insane button mashing.


Still worst game mechanic has to be Blight. Like both thematically and gameplay wise it does not at all fit a game like PoE. It can be damn rewarding, don't get me wrong...but its boring and ugly as hell.

I have seen a lot of people say they are enjoying the league mechanic, as oppose to only a few objections, about drops. It's actually a shame that this particular league happened during this nerf cycle, because it really took away from the league.